Crikey it feels a bit like a war zone at the moment!

[msrisotto]

I'm talking about that silly MRA group. It was so nice that we got the "I believe you" campaign going, such a valuable campaign. I suppose what with mothers day coming up as well, it just proved too much for the misogynists! So sad.

Why are you dismissing the CONCLUSIONS of the very report you are citing?

Hmmmmmmmm?

''I read the report and it states for physical and emotional abuse that men and women were equally as likely to be the perpetrator against their own children.''

Did you get to this bit?

For specific types of maltreatment, males emerged as the most frequently reported perpetrators. The gendered nature of child abuse was most evident for severe physical and contact sexual abuse. Within the subsample of respondents who reported severe physical violence by a parent or guardian, males were perpetrators in 86.4 per cent of cases reported for the under 11s, in 72.9 per cent for 11?17s and 64.7 for 18?24s

The whole legal profession needs to be taken out and shot at dawn.

That or we find some way of stopping them from encouraging emotional people at divorce/separation to view children as assets from the marriage to be fought over and then taking us for as much money as they can make.

We are bottom of UNICEFs table for child welfare. Clearly the family courts are not working in the best interests of the children.

Well that is a logical and sensible argument.

Shoot all the legal people. All of them. Even the ones who are overseeing things in war zones etc and trying Nazis. Yup shoot em all.

PLus

Linking UNICEF child welfare with family courts is ridiculous. A tiny proportion of children are affected by the family courts. The family courts are clearly not the reason for this outcome.

A lot of maths and stats FAIL on the boards tonight.

The sexual abuse stats are ? Less than 1% ? The myth of child sexual abuse by the biological father has been disproved many times over. Our daughters and sons are more of a risk to their siblings.

DV stats are high. That is sadly how many men vent their anger. Domestic abuse rather than violence would probably put women on an even basis to men.
As women you view violence as more damaging. As men we are routinely exposed to violence as boys and the more damaging thing for us is the verbal abuse, the control and the humiliation.

Just so that you are aware I am deaf. What is the instance of DV against deaf people in relationships?

1 in 2.

"That is sadly how many men vent their anger"

thankfully, while too many men do, most men do not.

...and what you have just written is by far the most stupid thing I have ever read on mumsnet AbF.

I don't think that just because something is not terribly common, means it should be ignored. Especially not something as awful as sexual abuse.

Let's remind ourselves of one of the conclusions of the report

"The high proportion of males reported as perpetrators of severe child maltreatment supports the need for gender sensitivity and effective engagement with both fathers/male partners and mothers in child protection and early intervention."

Why is it stupid? Violence is percieved as the worst action someone can take in a relatiosnhip but if you try to understand abuse from a male persepctive, they can accept violence but the worst abuse for us is verbal and being humiliated.

I got beaten by my wife for 6+ years. That was easy. I could live with that. She threatened to kill me and would try to suffocate me and I learnt to live with that. If figured not many people would want to live with a guy whose hearing is bad.

What is worse is the humiliation of being told that I am not a good father. That I cannot be left alone with my son and that everyone including him must watch me be supervised.

You said the judge threw it out though.

"The high proportion of males reported as perpetrators of severe child maltreatment supports the need for gender sensitivity and effective engagement with both fathers/male partners and mothers in child protection and early intervention."

Are you saying that people who find it hard being beaten, raped or murdered are being a bit soft?

I think many men would find it quite unpleasant to be beaten, raped or murdered.

I don't have any stats on it though

''That or we find some way of stopping them from encouraging emotional people at divorce/separation to view children as assets from the marriage to be fought over and then taking us for as much money as they can make.''

Apart from the fact that nobody encourages emotional people to fight over their children, they go to court because they were already fighting and couldn't come to an agreement. Doesn't a legal presumption of 50/50 care treat children like possessions to be divided equally between parents? As if they were the DVD collection.

It's king solomon all over again!

No I am putting across the male reason for not reporting violence by intimate partners.

The judge did not throw my case out. He remakrked that my wifes cases was for the most part "tittle tattle" and dimissed her argument that I could see the 1 yr old unsupervised.

I was told I would need to go for a court appointed psychiatric assessment and that I would need to continue supervised access with my children. This was the 4th hearing. At that point it looked like I would be back in court every few months with fresh allegations each time designed to discourage me from being a father.

I walked out. I did not want to spend the next few years fighting for access to my children and becoming insane in the process. Even if I was to gain unsupervised contact, my wife is a foreign national so the moment she perceives the court have gone against her she would then just apply to take the children out of the UK and there would be little I could do to stop her.

Thanks to you all here I am getting therapy tonight by venting to strangers even if you are a fairly unsympathetic audience.

The implementation of mediation now means you do not go to court without trying to reach an agreement.

Prior to April of last year you could go to court without any attempt at mediation or an agreement.

As soon as my son was born I had threats from my mother inlaw (twice divorced) that she would not hesitate to get lawyers and take my son/children from me if we decided to divorce/separate.

It was those kind of threats that were far worse for me than any of the physical violence in the marriage.

AbF, I am sure you won't acknowledge this, but I am fairly sure I have been sympathetic to your plight in the past

I expect it was when you were posting purely for support though, and not bandwaggoning a smackdown of MN and the posters herein, which appears to be your MO of late

you are getting something from this thread, fair enough, but you would get a hell of a lot more if you parked your shoulder-chip by the door

From page 49 of the NSPCC report

"The gendered nature of child abuse was most evident for severe physical and contact sexual abuse. Within the subsample of respondents who reported severe physical violence by a parent or
guardian, males were perpetrators in 86.4 per cent of cases reported for the under 11s, in 72.9 per cent for 11?17s and 64.7 for 18?24s. A minority of participants reported severe maltreatment where a female, or both a male and female parent or guardian was the perpetrator. "

If you look at the stats for non-resident perpetrators of violence the asymmetry is even more marked.

I don't mean to bang on about it AbF or to imply that the law as it stands is correct but it seems to me that if you're going to use a set of statistics to back up your argument then you should include all aspects and not cherry pick that which backs up your argument.

The bottom line is that these children are locked into a living hell, to be subject to abuse in a place where they should be able to feel secure. Whatever steps are taken to change the law should seek to minimize the danger these children are put in.

There are things you can do to stop your children being taken out of the country without your consent. There was a thread on here not so long ago where a woman was concerned that her exH would fly back to his country of origin with their DCs. She was given lots of advice on what she could do to prevent that. Unfortunately I can't remember any of it, but if you posted in legal, you would probably get the info.

Am I understanding you correctly btw, you chose to stop stop seeing your children rather then go to a court appointed psychiatric assessment?

AF I joined this thread after the post where someone said that feminists and MRA people must surely have a lot of common ground.

That is something I agree with. I am not a misogynist. I think women are also treated terribly by the family courts, CAFCASS and social services.

Urgent reform is needed. F4J are barking up the wrong tree here.

F4J are barking up the wrong tree here

that is all you needed to say

Messy, how much of that child sex abuse by fathers is the biological father?

I have seen stats that say that it is a complete myth that men abuse their own biological offspring. Yes as a man I have real reservations about other men living in the same house as my daughter but I would trust my own father around my daughter and my niece.

I mean, you needed to say that first, the rest is up to you