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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TV shows/films where gender stereotypes are being positively challenged...?

88 replies

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 13:55

DH and I have become rather fond of the TV show Bones loosely based on Kathy Reichs' Temperance Brennan books. It's fairly standard escapist, crime investigation fare in many respects, but it occurred to me that the show's characters do challenge a number of gender stereotypes in a positive way.

Dr Brennan, the main character is a science genius (forensic anthropologist) with a strong penchant for using logic and evidence in her investigations and personal life

Booth, her male FBI sidekick is a macho man in many respects, but this is often challenged. He's the main character who deals with parenting issues and is much more lead by his emotions than Brennan.

The lab boss (in the most recent seasons) is a brilliant female pathologist.
The lab computer/technology expert is also female. She has an enthusiastic and varied sex life, but no apologies are made for this.
The no-nonsense judge is also female.
The "emotions specialist" is a young man in his twenties.

The victims tend to be evenly split between men and women, horrific sex crimes against women are seldom featured.
Brennan rescues Booth from as many dangerous situations as he does her.

And possibly most importantly, the story lines often include the airing of interesting gender-based dilemmas and conflicts. And they don't necessarily resolve in a stereotypical way, either.

I'm not claiming the show is perfect, but it does a lot better than many others of its genre do.

Any other shows or films that have struck you as including an encouraging amount of positive gender characterisations?

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:12

Yes I like david boreanaz Bones

Sci fi stuff can be good. Star trek voyager, farscape, buffy, that sort of thing.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:14

Ah, Startrek Voyager, with its female commander, tough female Klingon and part robot SevenOfNine!
Yes, that's got some good examples for sure.

And Buffy.

I've never seen Farscape, but you've made me interested in checking it out now...

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:21

It's funny how people see things.
I love seven of nine, I think she is a great character and she is strong, clever etc etc
My friend just saw a woman with an amazing figure going around in a skintight outfit
So I thought she was a great female character while my friend thought she was simply male fantasy material

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:23

Traditional murder mystery has a lot of clever women
Do we have agatha christy to thank for that? Probably. Her writing was so popular and having a character like miss marple made it acceptable for women to be in that role in that genre maybe?

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:26

Yes, Sardine I was ruminating on the fact that although some of these shows do seem to be challenging certain stereotypes, the "sexually attractive female" is rarely one of them.

In Bones all the women are stunning, although the judge is at least of more mature years and has proper wrinkles and lived-in, believable type of figure.

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InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:30

Yes, Agatha Christie wasn't afraid of having an elderly woman as her main detective in many novels, was she? She had some younger women who were pretty go-getting in that role too (although they tended to be paired up with men) - Tommy and Tuppence some to mind. Tuppence was pretty decent.

And that idea spawned Murder She Wrote - once again, a strong older female lead character.

In France they have a TV crime show where the main detective is a middle-aged nun. And another show where a female with dwarfism is the lead problem-solving character.

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:30

TBF the male lead in Bones is quite a looker too Grin
And I always think that Angela's good looks are quirky rather than traditional IYSWIM
It is a good show.
I also like that cleverness is lauded.

One thing that I do notice though is that super-clever women - Brennan, 7 of 9, are presented as being emotionally inept / cold.
I guess you can't have everything!

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:32

A lot of star trek passes bechdel test with flying colours - even the original series (although obv there were plenty of young women in skimpy clothes for kirk to get off with!).

Did you know that a star trek episode had the first televised inter-racial kiss in the US?

WyrdMother · 11/03/2012 14:34

So I thought she was a great female character while my friend thought she was simply male fantasy material

She was both I think, Sci-fi producers do tend to have their demographic in mind which used to be predominantly male teen to twenties, I'm sure I read somewhere that there are more women sci-fi fans now but don't shoot me on either of those if I'm remembering wrong.

Joss Wheedon also did Firefly, which I loved, with the natural mechanic Kaylee who was still very femine but assertive. She is my favorite female sci-fi character of all time. The rest of the Firefly characters kicked arse as well as did the show in general but fell more into the classic character set. I am prepared to be told I am plain wrong. Grin

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:35

True enough, although both those shows also feature super-clever women who are emotional (Angela, Cam, Kathryn Janeway)

Although agreed, they aren't the genii of their respective shows! (mind you, the stuff that Angela does is probably up there....)

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:36

Googling tells me that Uhura was one of the first black regular characters on a US TV series.
Obv having a russian etc on the bridge was quite a big deal in the 60s

laptopcomputer · 11/03/2012 14:37

Yes, people lol at Star Trek, but having a black female on the bridge in those days was quite something

Lewis is not bad. Lewis's boss is female and portrayed as sane, so is the phorensic woman. although they are hardly main characters, but even so they are just women, there doing a good job, without having major charater flaws to compensate for the fact they have a brain.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:37

Sorry xp with Wyrd...

I suspect you're probably right about the sci-fi audience, then and now.
I've never seen Firefly - is that the one with a female prostitute as a main character, or am I misremembering what others have told me about it...?

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:41

Can you tell I am a big star trek fan Grin
Will stop going on about it now.

Wyrdmother yes I think that is true that she is both. I just found it so interesting that to me as a feminist she was "good", while to my friend as a feminist she was "bad" IYSWIM.

Having said that I have watched all the episodes so am familiar with 7of9's personality etc while my friend doesn't like that sort of prog and was simply going on what she looked like.

On that note there is a bit of a quandry to me - the females are all beautiful obviously which is problematic but OTOH it assists with the stereotype that beautiful women are a bit thick. Or something. Just thinking out loud here!

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:42

Ha, yes Sardine, very true about featuring a black woman in that type of role. Especially at that time.

Which reminds me that Judge Caroline in Bones is also African American, so she ticks a lot of boxes in one go Grin

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:43

Murder she wrote
rosemary & thyme
moonlighting?
female detectives everywhere
i love all that stuff Grin

Anyone remember juliet bravo?

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:43

The judge character in bones is a good character, very assured experienced professional but likeable as well

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:44

Good point about exploding the pretty=thick stereotype, Sardine

Although I think the problem is the pressure that comes with the other implicit message is that it's much more acceptable for women to be intelligent AND pretty rather than just intelligent.

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InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:45

Yep, I remember Juliet Bravo

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:45

It annoyed me on CSI when grissom left that catherine wasn't "promoted" to the lead character and they got another bloke in instead

Have you seen the trailers for the new series it's going to be Ted Danson off all people! Confused

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:46

And Cagney and Lacey...

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InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 14:47

Believe it or not, given that I've started this thread, I don't actually own a telly - but I like DVD box sets..!!
Never been that grabbed by CSI compared to other crime drama series....

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SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:48

IC yes about message having only beautiful women on screen sends.

Having said that there is plenty of programing here and in US which has people who are not young / traditionally good looking etc. It's the particular breed of "glossy" series that has everyone so good looking and especially the women.

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:48

ROFL @ not owning a telly Grin

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 14:49

cagney and lacey was great