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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TV shows/films where gender stereotypes are being positively challenged...?

88 replies

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 13:55

DH and I have become rather fond of the TV show Bones loosely based on Kathy Reichs' Temperance Brennan books. It's fairly standard escapist, crime investigation fare in many respects, but it occurred to me that the show's characters do challenge a number of gender stereotypes in a positive way.

Dr Brennan, the main character is a science genius (forensic anthropologist) with a strong penchant for using logic and evidence in her investigations and personal life

Booth, her male FBI sidekick is a macho man in many respects, but this is often challenged. He's the main character who deals with parenting issues and is much more lead by his emotions than Brennan.

The lab boss (in the most recent seasons) is a brilliant female pathologist.
The lab computer/technology expert is also female. She has an enthusiastic and varied sex life, but no apologies are made for this.
The no-nonsense judge is also female.
The "emotions specialist" is a young man in his twenties.

The victims tend to be evenly split between men and women, horrific sex crimes against women are seldom featured.
Brennan rescues Booth from as many dangerous situations as he does her.

And possibly most importantly, the story lines often include the airing of interesting gender-based dilemmas and conflicts. And they don't necessarily resolve in a stereotypical way, either.

I'm not claiming the show is perfect, but it does a lot better than many others of its genre do.

Any other shows or films that have struck you as including an encouraging amount of positive gender characterisations?

OP posts:
teahouse · 11/03/2012 20:13

Cat Woman - baddie was white, goodie was black (rubbish film otherwise)

InmaculadaConcepcion · 11/03/2012 20:25

Yep, Smells, that is, as usual the problem when it comes to challenging gender stereotypes. More and more examples of female characters in more stereotypically "male" type roles etc. but very few male characters who step into a more "feminine" role.

In Bones, the touchy-feely psychologist is a young male and as previously mentioned, David Boreanz' character is the one most emotionally driven when it comes to solving the cases and wrestling with his feelings for Emily Deschanel's character, but he's still the archetypal tough guy in most other respects.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:29

butterpecan that is interesting. Glad that she wasn't overlooked after all Smile

StealthPolarBear · 11/03/2012 20:30

We watched the war that started yesterday (or something?) the other day. It has a female lead, and the main guy (who I suppose you'd call her sidekick) mentioned very matter-of-factly how he and his mum sewed the curtains of their restaurant, which I thought was very cool. He was also portrayed as the calm-in-a-crisis heroic type, but early on he was injured and one of the other women in the group carried him to safety on her own. Again, this wasn't seen as a wound on his macho pride.

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:31

Neelix in voyager is cook / morale officer?

Sorry it's star trek again
And he's an alien so I don't know if it counts Grin

There are loads of films where men get to grips with looking after babies and it's all soppy.

StealthPolarBear · 11/03/2012 20:32

"I like The walking dead but the women in it are a bit weak and in need of male protection but I suppose it is realistic ."

Understatement! The one woman in it who showed a bit of determination was shown her place when she shot another of the group. The rest busy themselves with ironing, sewing, stencilling kittens on the walls. Lori, last week made some comment to her husband (when discussing a hugely important topic) along the lines of "whatever you think I think dear". It had me screaming at the TV

StealthPolarBear · 11/03/2012 20:35

Amazingly, none of the little wifeys do any SODDING childcare of the one child that is around - how hard can it be to keep an eye on him? Yet still he causes havoc.
(and I'm not excusing his dad in this, but if you're going to keep busy doing 50s housewife style duties put keeping an eye on your only child at the top of the list. Zombies won't eat you less if you have an ironed shirt on.)

sozzledchops · 11/03/2012 20:36

Ellen Ripley, Buffy and Cagney and Lacey are my favourite women in film and telly. Clarice Starling also, tough and uncompromising, having to compete against men but not having to act like them to succeed.

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:37

OOh ripley good call

Now I have an observation

Loads of the suggestions are sci-fi/fantasy genre

Is that because they have more/better female characters
Or
Are we all spods Grin

sozzledchops · 11/03/2012 20:40

Love Ellen Ripley and looking forward to Prometheus coming outing the summer, yay!

What's a SPOD?

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:43

spod = geeky person (to me anyway)

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:43

Oh and I am definitely one so not trying to offend!

hermioneweasley · 11/03/2012 20:48

Liz Lemmon in 30 rock. She's the boss of a mostly male writing team and is funny!

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 11/03/2012 20:52

re. most of the suggestions being sci-fi. I think it's about suspending disbelief. In series/films set today, we know there aren't that many women in powerful jobs, roles, so it's more difficult to suspend disbelief, script writers being aware of this will therefore not challenge stereotypes to any great extent. But in a series set in a alternate universe or centuries in the future we can imagine that things will be different and more women will be in roles of authority.

SardineQueen · 11/03/2012 20:53

Yes I agree with that smellslike.

So much more leeway with what you can do with characters when they don't even need to be human.

StealthPolarBear · 11/03/2012 20:54

That's depressing. I have no doubt you have a point, but even more reason to challlenge what we can and get rid of toys which stereotype children. My female cousin who is a doctor got DD a doctor kit for her birthday. MIL and FIL both (separately) said "ooh a nurses outfit" when they saw it Angry

Darleneconnor · 11/03/2012 20:56

Given my nn I have to say Roseanne!

Darleneconnor · 11/03/2012 20:58

Smellslike- the Dad in Blossom was a single parent and was portrayed as quite capable.

Darleneconnor · 11/03/2012 20:59

I think 'sister sister' also had a single dad.

Darleneconnor · 11/03/2012 21:00

Mrs Doubtfire is the archetypal 'man in domestic role' screen character though.

(sorry for multiple posts(

Greythorne · 11/03/2012 21:10

Ripley is fabulous. Strong, ethical, brave, great leader. AND shows nurturing side viz Newt, the little girl. 'Get away from her, you bitch''. (The bitch is an alien, btw). Love her.

Sarah Connors in Terminator 2 Judgement Day. Reinvents herself after Terminator. In T2 she is (in a mental institution! But) physically and mentally strong, absolutely determined, also shows her son how to be a leader, brave, self reliant.

Jodie Foster's character in Contact. She is amazing! Intelligent in a (sorry) geeky field (planetary physics), a maverick, highly ambitious, an atheist who Tells The Truth, has no children but seems not to want them, has a sexual relationship on her terms, stands by her beliefs. Awesome.

Hmmm, still thinking.

StealthPolarBear · 11/03/2012 21:12

There's Dana Scully. OK she's the sidekick, but she is portrayed as the logical, scientific one, while he's the dreamer. IIRC there's not too much of him being her knight on a white horse, riding in to save her life either.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 11/03/2012 21:13

what you do when you make 4 posts in a row is to announce in the 5th that you have a 5 post combo. Just coz.

I like Roseanne for it's portrayal of men, but just touching on the other posts you made - loads of shows feature capable single dads but in general, how are married dads portrayed? Are they as hands on and capable? Or do they take a back seat in the domestic sphere and let their wife get on with it?

It's been a while since I watched Roseanne so I could be remembering wrong, but iirc dan and darlene's boyfriend, and the sisters boyfriend (the one she ended up marrying), they weren't stereotypically masculine and I don't think they were deliberately made 'feminine' in the way some men are in order to get laughs. Like the guy who is not Charlie Sheen in 2 and a half men.

DoomCatsofCognitiveDissonance · 11/03/2012 21:21

Castle is a single dad, he's presented as very good at it.

FWIW, ER has long-running male nurse characters (Malik for example). I don't think ER is perfect and it has such a big cast it'd be absurd if it didn't have some male nurses, but still ...

But in general, I agree, it's harder finding men in stereotypically 'women's' roles than vice versa.

WyrdMother · 11/03/2012 22:00

What about MAS*H? Hawkeye seems to be very close to his emotions, Margaret Hoolihan isn't, at least to start off with and though she was the comedy bitch to begin with she got more and more respect as the season went on while still being her. I'm thinking of the episode where her boyfriend appears for a rare visit but she's very busy and struggling to make time for him, finally does, tries to be all 50's womanly but rebels because she knows that isn't who she is.

Loved MAS*H

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