February 29th - that boring hackneyed old crap again

[LineRunner]

I've just switched the Breakfast News over, as it's now on its second report of the day on manicures, only to find ITV's equivalent is having a rather large and silly segment on 'ladies popping the question'. With a psychologist. And, for some inexplicable reason, Michael Portillo. (Will he now go on anything?)

Does anyone really care who proposes to whom and when? Is it just me who finds this stuff tediously whimsical and infantilising?

To even pretend that women 'get the upper' hand in crucial social and economic relationships once every four years is shallow and specious, I reckon.

It's dangerous. It will give them ideas. I say abolish Feb 29th.

Yes it is ridiculous.

Loads of women on these boards though saying they are waiting for their partner to propose and they wouldn't do it in a million years as that would be wrong.

See also wills and "waity katey"

These ideas still v prevalent.

I had wondered if the psychologist was there to offer support and therapy to any lady who did indeed develop ideas above her station.

But then I turned the radio on instead.

... where I hear that today, ladies are 'allowed' to propose.

lucky lucky ladies.

"Will you take me as your possession and let me bear your name?"

I know on one level it's really trivial; but to me it does seem to cast into sharp the relief the media's promulgation of the idea that men are the ones who normally make important decisions about marriage (which has been called the 'glue the binds society together' by our own Prime Minister), whereas women get granted a special dispensation once every four years to have bit of a pantomime version.

Maybe they should try a different approach and make Feb 29th Misterectomy Day.

"On that special day ladies, ask him for a divorce".

Nyac

Why are people still obsessed with marriage in this day and age? Why, why? And, especially, why are so many women still obsessed with marriage, when the statistics show that marriage is much better for men than for women, and women initiate two-thirds of divorces?

Propaganda.

They make such a big deal of the wedding and the ring on the finger, that they forget to mention that for a lot of women marriage is about being a man's domestic servant.

'A woman proposing marriage is sowing the seeds of her own destruction.' That would have been a cool news piece.

Sad thing is that with earnings disparity, society setup meaning women's earning power / actual earnings go through the floor when they have children and women's pensions being so terrible, situations when people split up etc it actually is beneficial for women to get married unless they are financially independent.

Things have not really changed on that score.

There never was any such thing as "Waity Katie", IMO. I think they had an agreement that they wouldn't get engaged until they were ready to get married and then immediately have the press bothering them about "when are you going to have children?". They knew the fuss if they got married and then didn't have children for a few years would be more stressful than the fuss of "why haven't they got married yet?".

It doesn't matter if the statistics say that marriage is better for men than for women. Do your statistics say that marriage is good or bad for women?

I'm sure you're right about Katie, Trills. That woman is no fool (despite her odd choices).

But men tend to come out of divorce better, especially revenue-wise, because they tend not to have care of children. They contribute 20% top whack to the children's upbringing, after tax; and tend to contribute a minority of care. Women tend to have to contribute up to 100% their earnings to maintain their children's home and towards their upbringing; and contribute the majority of care.

That really dampens down women's earning power.

Also post-divorce 'assets' like the home can come with rents or mortgages attached for the woman to pay.

trills yes I agree but the fact it was in the papers in that way shows that these ideas are still out there IYSWIM

linerunner don't women who are divorced do better than women who were not married?

Trills, I recall statistics on mental health that showed women were happier unmarried than married; but that the opposite was true for men. This was a few years back, mind you.

linerunner don't women who are divorced do better than women who were not married?

I don't know that, Sardine. I think it depends on how much money (or debt) was 'in the marriage' to start with. And how long the marriage lasted.

On a slight tangent: In my case I found the judge was very concerned to make sure my ExH got a 'genuine fresh start' financially (my ExH walked out) - but I was apparently expected to be thrilled that I was 'getting the children'. The structual inequalities in terms of earning potential post-divorce were glaring to me.

Pensions is the big one surely? I thought that if you were married it was possible to get a share of the pension and not otherwise, which is a big deal.

"the judge was very concerned to make sure my ExH got a 'genuine fresh start' financially (my ExH walked out) - but I was apparently expected to be thrilled that I was 'getting the children'. "

OUCH

I remember seeing that, LR. There was a hierarchy of happiness - married men, single women, single men, married women.

It's being thrown into sharp relief for me at the moment, spending most of my time with men who are in very traditional relationships. Many women buy into the big lie - hell, I did myself - that being part of a married couple gives status, keeps you safe etc.

I will say though, of the men I know, even the ones I have thought of as lovely, kind people (and they mostly are, most of the time), very very few have been totally faithful. I'm now accepting of infidelity in a way I never thought I would be, simply because it appears practically universal.

And the women accept it, and accept that they'll be sitting at home while the men go out and drink/ do their hobbies. They let it happen as long as they get the payoff of Having A Husband who does the required minimum.

Oh, it makes me all cross.

I just feel sorry for folks born on 29th February - only get a birthday every 4 years!

I must admit that I was under the impression that in terms of legal protection and rights and so on, women who were married were in a better position than those not married. And so that really not a lot has changed in the last however many hundred years apart from now not marrying is more socially acceptable and so men are able to walk away from their responsiblities much more easily IYSWIM.

One thing I know - I will never, ever get married again! I lost my profesisonal identity. Still working on getting it back, ten years on, now the DCs are teenagers.

Having children and then being handed sole responsibility (which is what happens to many woman after divorce) affected my career very negatively.

My professional life is knackered by having children. Even without a divorce.

People would say that was my choice though!