February 29th - that boring hackneyed old crap again

[LineRunner]

I've just switched the Breakfast News over, as it's now on its second report of the day on manicures, only to find ITV's equivalent is having a rather large and silly segment on 'ladies popping the question'. With a psychologist. And, for some inexplicable reason, Michael Portillo. (Will he now go on anything?)

Does anyone really care who proposes to whom and when? Is it just me who finds this stuff tediously whimsical and infantilising?

To even pretend that women 'get the upper' hand in crucial social and economic relationships once every four years is shallow and specious, I reckon.

Tei You can interpret the data as "Womenz are desperate to be validated by a ring!" or, if you're feeling thoughtful and analytic about things, look at the fact that getting a wife is a great deal, whereas getting a husband is a terrible bargain. When offered the great deal, people go for it. When offered a terrible bargain, people don't. :)

Thanks blackcurrants that's interesting. I imagine it's a combination of wives being more desirable than husbands and society drumming into women that marriage is the ultimate achievement.

I did also find a link here which says gay couples are often happier than straight ones because they don't have social convention to keep them together, so they have to work on their relationship rather than settle if they're unhappy.

Yes, I've given that theory some thought - it seems to hold water, to me.

Personally I have very ambivalent feelings about marriage - hate it as an institution, love feeling like a 'team' with my spouse. Hate the idea that it's a woman's life goal, hate that it erases other (frankly more significant) achievements, hate that it's seen as the entry to adulthood for women, etc etc.

DH and I are rabid allies in the gay marriage equality movement over here, and we often say it's for selfish reasons. Marriage is a feminist issue because when marriage doesn't have 'gendered' roles, it won't have sexist expectations. If* we do want to reclaim marriage from the patriarchy or reform marriage into something that actually works for us, I think seeing lots and lots and lots of different kinds of marriage that work with equality and happiness for all is the only way. Little Timmy won't think it's odd that his friend Jenny's mother works while her dad stays at home, if he has TWO mothers, because he won't hang a work/sah expectation on a gender.

*And I'm not sure we do. hence the ambivalence

"You can interpret the data as "Womenz are desperate to be validated by a ring!" or, if you're feeling thoughtful and analytic about things, look at the fact that getting a wife is a great deal, whereas getting a husband is a terrible bargain. When offered the great deal, people go for it. When offered a terrible bargain, people don't. "

Fine, except that it's not true. You say marriage is a bad deal for women, yet our own eyes (and messages on Mumsnet, though possibly not the feminist section) tell us that women are eager to do it! As the NYT article said, that's not a straight versus gay thing, because where same-sex marriage is legal, women are more likely to do it than men.

Or maybe that's not true either, or not true everywhere:
www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/07/07/more-women-than-men-having-civil-partnerships/
They say, "According to figures released by the Office for National Statistics, 49 per cent of last year’s ceremonies were held by men. In 2009, men held 51 per cent of all civil partnerships."

Which makes it sound as if in the UK, numbers are pretty much equal.

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that gay men are less likely to desire marriage than gay women because marriage implies some sort of monogamy, and men are less likely to desire/expect monogamy than women.

I say abolish Feb 29th.

I'd rather it not be abolished, given it's my birthday!