trans-vaginal ultrasound for no medical reason - Virginia, anti-choice

[MitchieInge]

(and other states I think) is there a thread about this already?

sorry, link

it's not real is it?

The actual fuck?

"This is important to protect women's health". Aah the old "protect women" from themselves card. Lovely.

Fucking hell.

it's really, really real.

I don't know if you can get her stuff in the UK, but Rachel Maddow on MSNBC has been covering it really well, as has Amanda Marcotte on Pandagon, but Dahlia Lithwick's stuff has been the best, both this article and on twitter.

What are US feminists doing? US women? Are there marches? This is mind-boggling.

Just grim.

I don't know.

But the men over there must think they're in heaven. Controlling women's reproductive rights, and, y'know, with Hugh Hefner's "humanitarian of the year" status, what hope do women have?

The past four months, I've been watching the states, thinking I hope to high heaven we don't head the same way. But we already are, aren't we? Just a bit slower. :(

humanitarian of the year?

I would imagine that most men don't really think / care as it doesn't affect them and plenty more are outraged. What is going on over there in the way of protest though, does anyone know?

US feminists are doing some good work. Remember that this is a STATE law not a federal law, so there's no point marching on the white house - there are some marches on the Virigina state house but as the election is this nov. most state-and-national feminist organizations are using their boots-on-the-ground power to drum up support for pro-choice candidates.

In the mid-term elections in 2010 a bunch of republicans got into power, and frankly it's been open season on reproductive health care ever since.

it's horrendous. They all want to ban abortion, and are trying to say that contraception should be harder to get too.

The silver lining in this is that it's finally showing the right for what they are. No, not interested in 'jobs, jobs, jobs' and actually very keen on waging what they call 'the culture wars' (god guns gays abortion) to keep poor and stupid people angry enough to vote republican.

There are a lot of people in America who wish the 60s never happened, they are the people who fight 'the culture war'. Happily it seems to be putting independent voters (swing voters) off - that and women, who vote more than men. So I think this is going to hurt the right wing a lot in the long term.

In the short term, what the poor Virginian women seeking abortions will have to go through... just beyond belief.

The whole transvaginal / rape victims thing is just appalling.

Thank you for that informative post blackcurrants

So I guess the feeling in these states at the moment is that until they can get these guys out, there isn't really anythign they can do.

I don't blame them for that I feel the same watching conlib policies.

OK, I'm probably been really dim but what's the difference between this and what happens in the UK?

If you want an abortion in the UK I was fairly certain you need a scan first to make sure of gestation. They try an abdominal uss first and if they can't see with the abdominal uss then they go to a trans vaginal uss.

I don't see this article saying that all women will get a trans vaginal ultrasound in Virginia. It says "Many women receive abortion very early in their pregnancies, which would mean that, in some cases, a trans-vaginal ultrasound would be required."

So it sounds to me the same as here - try an abdominal uss first, if they can't see what they need to see then they do a vaginal ultrasound.

Really they do scans for abortions now, in the UK?

Viva the law will mean that it is compulsory for a woman to have a scan prior to an abortion.
For some women this will mean that they have to have a compulsory trans-vaginal scan.
Other articles have said that rape victims will not be excluded from this process.
At the moment it is up to the doctor to decide whether a scan is necessary.
For women having a very early term abortion - a handful of weeks - I think they can just be given a drug and it is done at GP surgeries? I don't know if all these women have a scan? I wouldn't have thought so but may be wrong.

Backdrop is that some states have it written into law that on top of the compulsory scan women have to look at scan and have feotus described to them.
It's a political idea, not a medical one, it's an anti-abortion idea.

The point is that the politicans are making decisions about what doctors must or must not do based on their moral views.

Taking the decision of whether a woman needs a scan or not out of the hands of medics and into the hands of the lawmakers.

Doctors are objecting to having to carry out this scan. They say it is invasive, unnecessary, and breaches the trust between patient and doctor.

It is mandatory that the woman see the foetus and hear the heartbeat. In some states, once this has happened the woman has to go away and 'think about it' for another 24-36 hours, before she can actually get the LEGAL procedure that she's saved u for and driven miles to get.

They are trying to make women either change their mind and go through with the pregnancy, or just feel awful, patronised and guilty.

Research shows that women don't change their mind after the scans. It's not like they're unaware that they're pregnant, fgs.

This stuff isn't new. In some states doctor's are required to read out a statement written by the government, full of misleading and often outright FALSE claims, like "You are about to kill a baby, do you want to go ahead? You are more likely to get breast cancer, do you want to go ahead? You are more likely to get depressed, do you want to go ahead?"

Doctors, obviously, don't like this much. But there aren't that many doctors who actually carry out abortions (They can chose not to train in it, and chose not to offer them) and so the ones that do so have deliberately chosen to support women's choices.

its the compulsory bit that sticks in my throat, like viva said many women have a tvs here in the uk if abdo scans arent conclusive for very early terminations of say 5/6 weeks, but it is not forced upon them yet thank goodness

minor in contrast to some states banning abortion altogether but still yet another piece in the trend there.

i was forced to have one of these scans prior to a d&c after a missed miscarriage because wanky doc 'prefered' them to abdominal ones. it was an unnecessary additional intrusion and humiliation in my disastrous treatment that day.

feel sad for women being made to go through this. the compulsory bit means that even a raped child would have to go through this.

for a start, a "foetus" (actually it's and embryo) is barely visible in early pregnancy. A foetal pole, probably, and a HB possibly. So showing a woman her "baby" is not going to change her mind, she already understands that if she doesn't terminate she will probably end up with a full term baby.

I once read a book, I can't remember which that described a procedure (I think end of the 19th century) subsequently described as "surgical rape". It was the forced VE of women suspected of prositution, in order to prove that they were not prostitutes. So really any woman out alone after dark. And the examination was mandated and performed by police officers. Anyway, this is what came to my mind on hearing of this article.

I don't know if the ethos is the same in the States, but here medical professionals tend to perform procedures only to benefit the patient (including abortions), and tests (including ultrasounds) that will affect / guide the treatment. A test where whatever the result the treatment would be the same without it is unlikely to be performed (except in the case of "defensive" medicine).

Well slutwalk got a huge amount of attention but this seems to be bypassed and much more serious imho.

I can't believe that men who don't possess a uterus can make these decisions. Porn was legalised in the USA because of free speech. But women are herded into this, like cows, because their voice doesn't matter. Of course there are feminist groups in USA who are vociferous about this but women seem to have no voice.

Remember 'The Stepford Wives'? This seems to be actually happening.

Swallowedafly I had the same experience. :(

contagious diseases act(s) bonzo? they came to my mind when I heard about this too

it doesn't seem like something that can be true, even in the states but I think I must be mad

Sardine It does seem to be idealogically based. And it really is that simple. Disgraceful behaviour on behalf of those who are democratically elected to act on the behalf of all the electorate.