Working mum. SAHDad. Support?

[BlingLoving]

Not sure where to put this, but figure that ultimately, a working mum and a stay at home dad is a feminist issue, or perhaps the result of feminism? Anyway, I realise that while DH is currently not getting much support, there are support options out there ? 1000s of blogs written by men in his situation; every SAHM we know taking him under their wing; other men who he will eventually get to recognise and know while he?s out and about with DS. But I don?t know any other working mums with SAHDs. Not one. And so I don?t know who to talk to.

So? does anyone a) know of any resources for me or b) want to join me in a general chat about what it feels like and what works and doesn?t work?

I've never met a SAHD. I would love to have some experience of them so that I could see for myself what the predominant situation is: whether they are swamped with support from mothers, or ostracised and viewed with suspicion, or whether it's roughly 50/50.

If I ever became involved with anyone again, I would love to have a SAHD type (as opposed to the 'cock-lodger'). I would love my children to have the benefit of a relationship with another adult whose concern for their welfare and happiness rivalled my own, as well as having the security of knowing that I could pursue a career knowing for a fact that my children were loved and well-cared for.

I am always surprised and saddened by the fact that less respect is given to the fact that when it works well, the working partner/SAHP model actually works brilliantly. The main problem with it is the lack of value society places on the role of primary carer and often a lack of appreciation from the working parent, when the truth is both are equally dependent on the other. I will admit to not having seen it this way before I became a single parent, so maybe that's why - maybe unless you are blessed with an ability to see all sides you have to experience it before you have a true appreciation of the bigger picture.

Bling the only thing you need to focus on is whether your DC are being well-cared for by their father and you are happy focussing on your career. If the answers to those two questions are yes, then nothing else matters. You may feel odd because it's culturally unusual, but that doesn't mean it is odd. Why should your sex influence your ability to parent or work? You will undoubtedly experience some attitudes, but that's their problem not yours.

sunshineandbooks - I think it totally depends on the man's character. If they're comfortable with P&T groups, school gate chatter, etc. then they are probably mothered and swamped with support. But if, like many men and my DH, they are shy, reserved and uncomfortable in solely female company then they can be totally isolated and lonely - especially if they live in an area where SAHDs are as rare as hen's teeth.

I think gaelic has a point. Men who buck the patriarchy often fall foul of the same penalties that affect women who step out of their traditional role. Among male single parents, for example, the problems faced by fathers are very similar to those faced by mothers, though arguably they have a more admired public presence than single mothers who are, of course, the scourge of the earth in some circles.

Yes that's it sunshineandbooks. I would also ask any SAHMs on this thread to think about how it would feel if each time they told someone they look after a demanding toddler and a just school age child they were asked "and do you work?"

But there are many WOMEN in that same situation. Should we have extra sympathy for a man?

Yes.

This whole discussion defines the entire problem. It shouldn't be about SAHMs or SAHDs, just stay at home parents! While the division exists, and while people ask why they should feel extra sympathy for a man, then the difficult and lonely role of a SAHD will not get any easier.

I think SAHMs get the 'and do you work' line a lot actually. Along with the 'just a mum' line and the 'living off your partner/benefits' one if they are single and unemployed. Women can't win whatever they do. Perhaps no one thinks they are deserving of extra sympathy because society has ingrained it in us to accept that that's just the way it is for women.

"I think it totally depends on the man's character. If they're comfortable with P&T groups, school gate chatter, etc. then they are probably mothered and swamped with support. But if, like many men and my DH, they are shy, reserved and uncomfortable in solely female company then they can be totally isolated and lonely -"

I was 35 when I had dd. NONE of my friends had children. Well some of them did -they were teenagers who came to babysit. I am not especially social. Would I have been due for sympathy?

Really? Well yes I guess so, if they live in an area full of two income families. Up here I am going against the grain working and people are astounded when I tell them I work full time (doesn't make me feel too great).

Just forget I spoke. I shall go and tell my DH that he is as privileged a lazy arse as every SAHM on this thread and he should be grateful he can sponge off me. That better?

No-one said that SAHD's are lazy arses. Not at all. The question was whether they need special provision for being dads rather than mums...

And I would say that while society thinks they are lazy arses - and IME it does - then they do sometimes need extra support, emotional if nothing else. Once SAHDs feel accepted as much as SAHMs (albeit that probably still isn't much!) then things can begin to equalise.

On the other hand, I can't say I know where that support would come from. I give DH as much support as I possibly can, but it doesn't matter how much I tell him what a great job he does, etc. etc. he still feels like a total failure. Yet you only have to look at our two children to know he is anything but.

Well shouldn't be a thing for the SAHDs to raise awareness and fight their own corner? They are doing a valuable job after all. It alarms me somewhat that these competent men, the minute they are doing childcare, expect the WOMEN to justify it.

See my earlier posts. Plus as a woman I definitely feel the need to justify to myself, DH and the wider world why I am not the one at home doing the childcare.

Still not entirely sure what the thread is about but I think it is about the issue of role reversal from the traditional SAHM/WOHD model and its impact on parents who do it.

The mother is treated as 'lucky' by her female peers and yet she feel unmotherly. The father feels isolated, looked down on and with outright suspicion in some cases. It is swimming against the tide.

It does depend what kind of strata of society you live in. I live in a very traditional middle class area with fathers who all work and pretty much all mothers at home or part time job so I don't have any peers like me and DW gets the 'ooh you lucky thing'. Her friends sort of make jokes about the fact that I do all the cooking and cleaning. Its just a job to me. DW does other stuff. I think in working class areas where there is perhaps more long term unemployment it is more accepted that men are at home so not so much seen as an odd thing to do.

Anyway, I'm hopefully not going to be at home as much as I am taking a part time job outside the home quite soon. Its not going to be a career, its not badly paid and a fairly easy and interesting job but the most important driver for me is that both DSs are getting toward secondary school age and I do feel pressure to get out there and earn some money. To be truthful. I do need it for my own self esteem too so I do understand why gaelic's DH feels the way he does.

My DH is SAHD and I am the breadwinner, but mainly working from home.

A lot of the other mums assume that I really do all the cooking and shopping, there is a real mental block to people imagining he can actually do this stuff if there is a woman in the house

He does find it hard as he is not part of the mum crowd and doesn't get invited to coffee mornings and all that stuff that breaks the ice. So I think he finds it much more isolating than I did when I was SAHP.

What I really value is that we've both done both roles (and shared them) at times. So I think it helps in us both understanding the trials and tribulations of being a SAHP and a WOHP.

hi bling, i was in your situation for about a year, when my ds was younger.

i interpreted your op as asking for some support and resources from others in the same position. rightly or wrongly, it is an unusual position - which makes finding support a little harder. at a very basic level, when all the other mothers at work are moaning about daycare or the nanny, it's hard to join in. yet, at the same time, you don't quite fit in the men chatting about football and golf either.

i'm quite surprised that a few posters seem to be treating this threat as a bit of a aibu. you might possibly get a better response in relationships although it's not really a relationship issue either. perhaps we need a whole new topic!

Why should anyone have sympathy for either of you, especially? Yes, I can feel for people stuck home with small children, or people stressed at work, but my sympathy level doesn't increase because it is the man at home and the woman in the office.

What are you saying here? That you want a medal for going to work? If you don't feel guilty or need to over compensate, why are you even bringing this up? You are not demonstrating feminism is working at all - you are still fretting that you are working, worrying about what your dh is doing during the day, and wanting to feel somehow "special" that you are doing it this way.

Feminism is working when this is isn't even an issue.

"for a man who is not in the right place emotionally - it is one hell of a difficult thing to do. For a man who is used to being the breadwinner and to having some control over his life to suddenly find himself in that position. Knowing he would rather be at work"

This is EXACTLY how I felt on maternity leave. I am not a man though.

I think feminism can only be said to be working when the role of a mother, in all its wide and varied guises, is fully celebrated and appreciated. It is not. That is why a father who finds himself giving up work to play that traditional mothering role can sometimes lose his sense of worth. And yes, Portofino, I fully appreciate that a woman who has a good career and enjoys her work can find herself feeling that way too when she's at home on maternity leave. Society doesn't value anyone who isn't earning money and paying taxes, preferably lots of both.

I agree gaelic. I suppose I just don't believe that men need special help and sympathy for doing something that women do as a matter of course.

It's like it is just WRONG for a man to feel demeaned, put upon, beholden to his spouse, reliant on his wife for money. Many, many, many women are in the exact same postion, and noone gives a shit. The men need to suck it up, imho.