"Women and children first" in the 21st century?

[Greythorne]

Thinking of the awful, shocking Costa Concordia cruise disaster, what do you think about the convention of women and chikdren being evacuated first?

I think it's rather wonderful to see men being gallant in such situations.
Everyone making sure the children all get safely on the boats, and can be with their Mummy's so they're not so scared.
It's amazing to hear the stories of bravery and generosity which sometimes emerge in disaster situations.
Everyone working together to help one another.
It renews your faith in human nature.
< sniff, sniff, pass a hanky someone ! >

I remember when my DH came to look for me when a fight broke out one night in a pub we were in.
When I think of him doing that for me - which resulted in him being caught up in the trouble - it makes me forgive him for all the little things, and makes me realise that fundamentally he does care a lot.

From what I heard, it was 'families first' on this occasion, including men with young children . Not sure that women were being arbitrarily prioritised over men.

Well I think that is better Ephiny - "Families first"
In the 21st century that makes a better cry for priority I think than "Women and children" first. But probably the same basic idea.
Just that the elderly and disabled people need to be thought of and prioritised too.

Actually I read that here:
"We were keen for women and children to go first, and men if they had babies or families."

which is a slightly odd way of phrasing it, maybe I misinterpreted. Does this mean women first regardless of their parenting status, but men only if they had kids?

The article also gives the example of the HMS Birkenhead evacuation, which is supposedly where the expression comes from. But that's a bit different as the men were soldiers and the women and children obviously not - so really that was 'civilians first', which is what you would expect.

Was good discussion about this on Woman's Hour this morning. According to the 'expert' - generally behave well in these type of extreme situations and help the more vulnerable first.

And thats how I think it should be really so children/elderly/disabled/pregnant should have priority.

Fit and capable men and women should be equal but I think there are a still a lot of men around who would insist upon women first - certainly older men.

Sorry - meant that people generally behave well.

Although there is some dispute over the numbers on the HMS Birkenhead it is generally thought to have been 638 with only around 20 women and children. So women and children first would not necessarily have contributed to a massive difference in male/female survival even though it sank in about 25 minutes.

Sardine: I am aware of the back story of women and children first . I don't necessarily think we are disagreeing even though we might have phrased it differently.

I have no idea whether "women and children first" means all women or women with children never thought about it before

I would guess it meant the former? In pre-contraception days possibly women in their childbearing years were so unlikely not to have children that it wasn't worth mentioning, and that combined with an idea that women were fragile and essentially childlike meant that no differential there was required?

Also given the clothes they used to wear, I would imagine that any women who ended up having to swim for it would be terribly hampered by their clothing, and obviously they couldn't disrobe if there were men around.... Just different times I guess.

sportfanatic yes I think we are saying the same thing!

It's interesting isn't it.

A woman wouldn't get very far swimming in a full tight corset and skirts and all the rest of it would she. They used to keel over at the best of times due to being all squeezed in like that. let alone when dunked in cold water and exercising vigorously.

'Women and Children first' never seemed to make any sense to me.Let's face it if a ship is sinking you're going to need a replacement ship and I can't see women and children building one!

Ah, hadn't realised the ability to work sheet metal was encoded on the Y chromosome, that's useful to know.

Men don't appear in the world, fully formed, by magic!
I know it's a terrible blow for you to find out, but they are in fact grown in the horrible wombs of those pesky women, and are then born as babies, they grow into children and then adults.

HTH

Incidentally when times have called for it, when the men have all been away at war, women have had the opportunity to work in heavy industry. And then when the men came back they got sent home again.

Yes,if I remember my history correctly women built the Titanic during world war one while the men were away at war.And we know what a shoddy job that was.

wrong again!

www.historyonthenet.com/Titanic/blame.htm

two enquiries into the Titanic sinking recommended:
All ships must carry sufficient lifeboats for the number of passengers on board.
Ship radios should be manned 24 hours a day.
Regular lifeboat drills should be held.
Speed should be reduced in ice, fog or any other areas of possible danger.

no mention of women being at fault....that is just in your mind....

The titanic was the most robust ship built of it's time - it was, however, badly navigated. By a man.

The Titanic enquiries,as anybody with any real knowledge of the events knows,were whitewashes instigated by the Suffragettes to cover up poor quality female riveting.Read what David Icke has to say about it if you don't believe me!

Read what David Icke has to say about it if you don't believe me!

Read what David Icke has to say about it if you don't believe me!

Read what David Icke has to say about it if you don't believe me!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha........

Tillyminto: I think one of your keys is stuck.

nah.... still laughing at you sweetheart...

Read what David Icke has to say about it if you don't believe me!

...priceless!

The titanic had metal sheets used to build it that they later found wasn't up to scratch hardly the fault of the women labours building itunless they were in charge of ordering and pricing things

If women built the Titanic during World War One, how did it sink in 1912?

I hardly think they would have put women in charge of ordering and pricing things no matter how short of men they were!

Lollygag - sources please.

It DIDN'T sink in 1912.READ DAVID ICKE!!!!

Oh ffs. Abandon thread! Abandon thread! Goat shortage crisis!