Feminist nude painting - what is your favourite portrayal of a woman's body?

[Imperfectionist]

The breast implant issue and re-ignition of the debate about modern ideals of a woman's body, especially a much-quoted survey in which school children shown photos of nude women picked the ones with implants as looking most natural, has made me want to make sure we have plenty of representations of normal (and beautiful) female forms in my house, for my daughter.

I do not read and certainly do not have in the house any magazines or media with images of women looking like they've had extensive surgery. My daughter (only three years old) often sees me (a normal shaped size 12 with post-breastfeeding boobs) naked and has good healthy female role models around her. We have lots of pictures on the wall, framed prints from galleries I've visited over the years, and I would like to choose a beautiful nude painting to join them, showing breasts in all of their natural glory.

I've racked my brains, and googled, and wondered if one of you might recommend your favourite portrayal of a non-surgically-enhanced naked woman in paint. The classical artists are sometimes too idealised; and often had barbie boobs even back in Michaelangelo's day. Some nudes are too sexually suggestive for what I'm looking for. I want a painting of a naked woman who radiates strength and beauty, who is comfortable in her skin, with no hint of voyeurism or titillation by the artist.

So... any recommendations for a feminist-inspiring nude painting? Hopefully one I can buy online from the National Gallery or online!

The most empowering experience I ever had was in the changing rooms of the Sports Union at University. Back then (no idea if it's the same now), noone covered up while showering or getting changed and so for the first time in my life I saw a range of naked women.

It was a real eye opener that these women were all shapes and sizes under their clothes, all normal.

We see other women around us clothed all the time, and compare ourselves (or not), but when it comes to our naked body we often only have pictures of an idealised form to compare ourselves to.

Anyway, maybe a bit OT, but I remember at the time feeling way better about my naked self

Maybe you should take your daughter on a naturist holiday op!

I don't understand how saying art has been doing female nudes for a long time, leads to the conclusion it's not political? Surely, given we've been living in a patriarchial society for a long time, we'd expect to see the effects of that in art?

Seems to me that you're saying, well, I know about the way women have historically been objectified when their naked bodies are used so others can profit or exert power, and I know this is still happening to women in some media and some situations, but I want to forge a new kind of art that looks the same as the old one but discounts its misogyny. I can understand wanting to say that. I love art too. I just don't know how to do it, you know? And I don't know if hanging up images of naked women is, in our current society, going to have the effect the OP is hoping it'll have, on her DD.

Thanks for friendly reply Hully

see, there's something in this assertiveness malarky isn't it ?

I agree, I don't think it can do anything other than reinforce the message that women are for undressing and looking at, however well-intentioned the OP and however varied the body shapes on display.

I don't deny that there is some art depicting nude women which objectifies women, but that doesn't mean that it's true for all art depicting nude women.

It's not a black and white issue.

Unfortunately, as our general culture is all about phwoaarr where females are concerned, any depiction of the female falls upon the same eye and area of the brain used to assessing them as objects.

How do you distinguish between art depicting naked women that objectifies women, and art depicting naked women that doesn't? Does it partly depend on the observer and how they're equipped to interpret it? (I don't know).

I'm not unwilling to believe a lot of art isn't made with the intention of objectifying anyone and certainly lots of the art by women of themselves seems to be of that kind. What I think is the problem, though, is that you take that piece of art, and no matter what the conditions of its production, you see it in the context of our society, wherein women's nakedness is routinely exploited by and for the patriarchy. How can that not have an impact on how the piece of art is understood?

I don't disagree about the idea of having bodies of both genders, both clothed and unclothed.

But on the other hand, if the OP thinks female nude bodies are beautiful, and will display pictures of them with pride and joy, she will probably pass on those ideas to her daughter. And I don't think that can be a bad thing.

OP, I might be totally imagining this but I THINK Clarissa Pinkola Estes writes about art/culture. Also, on a slight tangent, her key work Women Who Run With the Wolves, if you don't know it, takes archetypal folk/fairy stories and uses them to examine women's 'stories' and their lot throughout history. It is celebratory and a bit wild (in a great way!)

this is my all time favourite photo of a naked woman. It's just so simple and natural.

I like this one

Hully, isn't it quite helpful, in that case, to encourage children (and adults, actually, come to think of it) to look at depictions of naked women and, rather than thinking 'phwoaarr', look at them from the point of view of line, shadow, shape, etc? To me that's the same, and as valuable as, looking at, say, a Cezanne still life from an art-appreciation point of view.

Certainly is.

But, meanwhile, outside of an art class, that's rarely how they are looked at.

And what I think is interesting is how apart from Michelangelo's tiny dainty penis, the "artistic" depiction of penes remains a no no for our living room walls.

Spencer Tunnock pictures are good. Loads of nudes of all ages and sizes in pleasing artistic compositions quite devoid of sexual connotations.

Well, if they're rarely looked at that way perhaps the OP and anyone else who hangs nudes at home and encourages contemplation of/conversation about them is actively helping them to be looked at that way a bit less rarely.

And yes, as I said before, I'm definitely in favour of depictions of nude men too. And it is a pisser that there don't seem to be many.

Reading through today's posts is leaving my head spinning. I'm really glad I started this thread though - it's given me so much to think about, and I've copied and pasted it for keeps.

Actually of all the posts trying to get to the bottom (ha ha) of my motives for wanting a painting of a nude woman to hang on the landing, suzikettles comment really struck a chord:

"The most empowering experience I ever had was in the changing rooms of the Sports Union at University. Back then (no idea if it's the same now), noone covered up while showering or getting changed and so for the first time in my life I saw a range of naked women. It was a real eye opener that these women were all shapes and sizes under their clothes, all normal.

We see other women around us clothed all the time, and compare ourselves (or not), but when it comes to our naked body we often only have pictures of an idealised form to compare ourselves to. Anyway, maybe a bit OT, but I remember at the time feeling way better about my naked self.

Really, I want my daughter, and myself... and any other kids I might have in the future of either gender, to have a small variation of suzikettles' experience in those union showers. It made her feel confident in her naked self. And savvy to the myth of the ideal female figure perpetuated in the media.

So that's really my main motive. The other one is that I love the naked female form, I find it beautiful, and I find some artistic representations of it inspiring, empowering, and just... beautiful. We all find beauty in different places. I find it in many humans - men, women and children - and also in women's bodies. Not in an erotic way. I just think flesh is beautiful.

Does that sound weird? I've never tried to put that in words before.

Hullgully . I thought it was Rafael Nadal.

As far as I can think of there are loads of male nudes. Certainly when you look at less contemporary art.

I'm glad you started this thread also. Has been very interesting. I agree, flesh is beautiful. Yes!

I had a similar experience to suzikettles in Japanese hot springs. You have to bathe unclothed and at first I hated the way the Japanese women would stare at me. Then, one wanted to stand next to me to compare how different our bodies were. Her torso was much longer and legs much shorter. Once i realised it was just curiosity at quite different body shapes I got over my self and could really relax. Never made it to a mixed onsen. That would have been too much.

My dc (teens) see me and dh naked all the time. Poor them.

What are some good male ones, woo?

Think some good male ones have been mentioned further up the thread like Michaelangelo sculptures, Lucian Freud and others that i forget, Hullygully.

I am too much of a scaredy cat to google 'male nude'.

The ones I found - Italian Renaissance ones - were clearly visions of what the male and female ideal was at the time. Not for this thread!

No none of those are any good.

I want ordinary real men painted as live models like women are.

Or art pics similarly.

Like this

These any good?

Oh they're great - thanks widow

I never knew there was such a thing as WikiPaintings. Thanks for the link WidowWadman.

WowOoo - those Japanese hot springs are awesome aren't they ? We lived in the northern island of Hokkaido for a year, and became connoseurs of all the natural hot springs scattered over the island. Mmmm, bliss !