Happy Patriarchymas!

[thunderboltsandlightning]

I know, I know - but this is the feminist section and christmas is about celebrating the birth of the son of god, with women's spirituality and power completely written out of the story. It's the classic patriarchal mindfuck for women. Even Santa's a man, but who does most of the present-buying and wrapping?

Then there's the fact that christmas is all about women doing most of the work, with men enjoying the benefits.

Each year I find it a little more difficult to have to go through it all. Once you've seen what it's about, it gets harder to ignore the brainwashing.

Hope everybody has a happy peaceful time, whatever you are celebrating.

There are plenty of other feminist forums around Laquitar, if you're interested in feminism but don't like this one

UK Feminista has one and The F Word spring to mind. Maybe some people know some other ones as well.

Thanks Elfenor.

and Laquitar has started another thread to call us all silly there too

I predict a headache for ole Laq in the morning

yes, you see this section can be very useful

Not all AF. Not at all. Please don't put words in people's mouths. (i'll get annoyed and start another thread )

Thanks TheBrandy

Oh and anyone ill informed enough to think the season is about the birth of Christ is in no position to talk about brainwashing. My six year old knows better than that.

Why is it 'silly'? Surely if it's that silly you'd have an actual argument, not just a bunch of insults to throw around?

FWIW, Christmas five years ago I felt very silly. My then boyfriend was a total wanker who made me feel useless, lazy, incompetent and clingy. My granny was dying and I was nursing her, and my boyfriend was letting me pay all the rent and all the food and do all the housework, and my nearest family and friends were over 150 miles away. I remember driving back home for Christmas and finding I wasn't welcome at his and he agreed to come to my mum's for Christmas Eve dinner, then didn't turn up - didn't call, just didn't bother to come. And I was so sure it was my fault for not being domestic enough, and for not being brilliant at throwing Christmas parties like his family did. It was such a rotten, lonely Christmas and I wish so much I'd been able to read something like this OP that might have made me see sense.

I am so, so lucky that it never got any worse than slightly depressing for me, but for lots of women, it doesn't feel like they've got a choice about this work, they're brainwashed into thinking they have to do this stuff or they're lazy or useless or not worth loving. Every person who says it's just 'silly' or that women can 'choose' is missing the point - some people need a jolt like this thread to help them realize what's going on.

And I thought it was feminists who were supposed not to have senses of humour!

Did Laquitar really start a thread to slag this thread off and then by the extension the feminist section? Sad.

LRD You are right that a lot of women suffer more due to the wifework expectations laid at them by society generally during the secular aspect of the Christmas season and that this can also be quite damaging when they are subtle I'm glad you're out of that:)

"for a great number of Christians Christmas is about the birth of Jesus" that particularly point being that for a number of people Christmas isn't about the birth....and that's fine too.

I went to a convent school. Up until that point I had not been exposed to feminist ideas. The sisters were influenced by Mary Ward who said "women in time will come to do much" and did a great deal to further independence and influence for women in society. If it weren't for them I wouldn't have had a career or as able to decide for myself what to do with my life despite social norms.

Life is complicated, every is trying to improve and enjoy their own lot in their own way.

Yes she did thunders :(

Its so true that women are generally expected to do all the grunt work of Christmas. If you're in a respectful relationship and that's appreciated and rewarded then fab. But what if you aren't, and you're just expected to do it?

I think that's what it's all about for me - why feminism is so important.

I did most of the shopping and wrapping, plus ebaying and working a few about 60 extra hours. I def am the only one who stresses - DH isn't awe struck by huge commercialism.

DH also worked loads of extra hours.

Difference is - I only claimed half of my hours, and will have most of January off, whereas DH is claiming all of his in money.

Personally - I think I got the better end of the stick, because we'd both rather be at home with the children but I have the more family friendly job.

Funnily enough I did ask my mother on Christmas Eve how she coped with a full time job, self employment and doing all of this for us. She said back then there were no computers, iPhones, laptops and thinks she just had more time to get on with it because there were less distractions (she hates smart phones).

But ...........

My Christmases as a child were magical, I remember them with huge fondness. So on that basis however hard work it was for my mother - and however stressy it is for me - it's worth it.

Because my dad was a pisshead my mothers third child.

Much as I loved my dad - I have a massive amount of respect for the work my mother put into making every aspect of our childhood.

I am well aware that my dad should have done a lot more - that's why I don't have the same respect for his input into our growing up.

He died when I was quite young and we were already beginning to have huge arguements about lots of issues - precisely because although I loved him - I didn't respect him.

And that's why I'm married to a man who is nothing like my dad btw.

My mum is an amazingly strong woman - her workload (including raising us 2) was immense - but my dad walked all over her.

People are really missing the point when they talk about their own individual christmases.

The fact is that overall most of the work (and it is a huge amount of work - generally unpaid) for christmas is done by women. These are choices made by individuals, they come out of social structures that are set up so men can exploit women's labour.

Similarly a lot of people are ignoring that christmas is a patriarchal festival. It's set up to worship the birth of a son to a male god, by a woman who had to be a virgin before she could be regarded as good. The whole thing is a mind-fuck for women, whether women want to actually consider it or not.

If you start viewing christmas with a critical eye e.g. listening to christmas services then its patriarchal nature is blindingly obvious.

And anything patriarchal is worth resisting. :)

"these aren't choices made by individuals"

I see what you mean about missing the point. I just know that for me, when I think about the underlying structure, it just casts into sharper relief what dynamics were playing out in my life or my mum's life, so I see it on a personal level.

It's true though that this isn't about whether or not we know individuals who do it all perfectly and don't get stressed - actually something that seems very cruel is it's all meant to be effortless, isn't it? Women are meant to knock up a lovely Christmas without seeming to get stressed or upset. FWIW the Virgin supposedly gave birth to Christ without labour pains - way to make other women feel rotten - so maybe there is a parallel there too.

Well of course she didn't. She was an incubator and incubators don't feel pain. Pain giving birth would have made her a female human being rather than a man-made fantasy virgin.

I was really meaning the posts saying "It's not like that at my house therefore your analysis is wrong" that were missing the point. You're aware that you circumstances are more of an exception than the rule, LRD.