Anyone else feeling wifeworked over by Christmas (and DH)?!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Yes, this is a bit of a whinge thread. But I can't be the only one. Eleven months of the year I'm not that fussed but at Christmas I do care. Selfishly. For me. Because I don't actually enjoy having no decorations, a messy home and no Christmas meal.

Do you find that it's worse at Christmas? I think it's partly the expectations that come from outside, and all the tradition - it makes it that much harder to get away from traditional expectations both of what I should be doing and what, in total, should be done for a good Christmas.

Btw, if you can get us out of this pattern please tell me how: since the Wifework thread a while back, I've been doing a lot less and DH has been doing a little more, and the mess has been driving me nuts. We'll muddle along until I crack and point out x hasn't been doing in weeks, and could he please get his finger out - he'll insist he does do it/was about to do it, all evidence to the contrary, and we'll row. Then he'll admit he hasn't done it, but he'll get better. And then he doesn't do whatever it is, though he'll often do something else, something obvious like hovering. And I will feel 'why should I do this job, he said he would'.

It is a crap pattern.

Anyway, right now I have a tree and nothing else, and I am not feeling full of Christmas cheer because there are half a dozen things he's said he'd do that still aren't done. If I do them it undercuts the whole point of trying to get him doing stuff; if I tell him (again) it's possible three of them will get done ... but for the love of God does it have to be like this?

Whinge with me, and remind me Christmas is not about the little stuff, please?

i agree with blackcurrants comments and think dreamingbohemian is correct that you need to look at the entire household work.

i dont subscribe to making lists for someone else to execute as for me it is micro managing. I think you have to hand over responsibility for an entire task. I would not take responsibility for getting the house work issue sorted ? more of ?either we need to come up with a solution that works for both of us or need to work out how to pay a cleaner?. Then just keep trying different ways of making it work & keep on till you do and you DH realises how much you have been doing and you aren?t going to give up on finding a solution .

At Minto Towers:

• DP does all the cooking and also makes me coffee & breakfast in bed every day. I can go months without making anything in the kitchen more than a cup of tea?
• I do anything financial or organisational
• We have a cleaner/ironer.

We do some jobs together and also do planning together. It can be a semi formal meeting - we go to a coffee shop with a laptop. A reoccurring topic is ?how do we make life easier?? and a current topic is what jobs do we need to sell the flat at a good price?? & we will come up with a to do/purchasing list & book time in our diaries to complete the jobs.

We got together when we were undergrads (now late thirties). We used to live in student houses of the ?classic style? (sink blocked for weeks, empty takeaway boxes living in the house for months). We now live in a nice clean hassle free home. DP is not less clean or less good at any household task (except those using power tools, I am the daughter of a carpenter) he is just a different person and does them differently than I would.

Chestnutx3 I think a good way of working out what's fair is to aim for equal leisure time and, crucially IMO, equal respect for the work you do, however you organise things. It sounds like your DH is not doing his share, doesn't have much respect for what you do (hence grumbling about the state of the bathroom etc.) and is cherry-picking the jobs he does (DIY).

Okay, so things still aren't equal even looking at a broader scope.

Could he do more of something else in exchange for you doing more of the cleaning? Would you consider this? For example, what if he did all the cooking and more of the shopping? (could you also do online shopping to make your life easier?)

As I said earlier, I find it easier to take on whole tasks than split individual tasks 50-50. For us it feels balanced that way but I know it might not work for everyone.

LRD , it's been this way from day one in 1985, I think that military training came in handy, they have to learn to clean, iron and take care of things, although he was pretty good before he joined up, his mum wouldn't have let him get away with doing nothing.
He's always been highly domesticated, even after I gave up work when I had DD, he did his share of stuff - when I came out of hospital after a week he had cleaned the house from top to bottom and all the washing was done, fresh bedding etc. He cooked me a breakfast every day for a fortnight while he was off with us and did all the nappy changes/baths.

He enjoys cooking and faffing and all that shizz , I'm incredibly fairly lazy and do the absolute minimum.

Malificence - have you considered Relate?

I think I am the lazy one in our house, although DH wouldn't agree because I am ill. I work full time and he is at home as he had to retire with ill health. We have two DSs, who are now young men. DS1 is also disabled and DS2 is at Uni. DH and I married in our early 30s so he had already lived for years in his own house, on his own. He was a very capable cook and cleaned, washed and ironed for himself.

In our early years, he worked whilst I was a SAHM for seven years. Then I went back to work and he had to stop. I have now been the main breadwinner for more than 10 years.

In all of that time, we have divided the household jobs by type. He does all of the food shopping and almost all of the cooking. He does all of the finance and paperwork. I do the washing and ironing and the garden. Now I am also ill, we have a cleaner and someone to help with the heavy gardening.

When it comes to Christmas, he does all of the food and writes the cards for his family and friends. I do the presents and decorations and write my side of the cards.

We are now in our late 50s and hope this kind of division has rubbed off on our DSs. Hopefully, they will be good partners themselves. I used to laugh when they were younger if we went out to someone else's house for a meal. The DSs would always thank the man for the meal (assuming that all men could cook). They would also assume that women were good with technology. Just goes to show how much is social conditioning! Oops, sorry for the long post!

Ok, sorry, I missed the last few posts before I spoke to him.

We've drawn up a rota and he was actually quite happy with that, which surprised me ... it also surprised me how often he thinks things need doing, considering atm, without rota, he does them once in a blue moon and tells me my standards are too high.

So, we will see.

Thanks so much for all the advice ... and don't stop posting for a whinge if a whinge is what you desire.

I think with some couples, you can get one person who gets all excited about Christmas when the other is a bit meh, and I can imagine that would lead to conflicts. Socially though, I believe there is the "expectation" that women will make sure there is a "good Christmas," or whatever holiday it is.

It's sort of happened pretty evenly and organically here. I did the tree. DH did the rest of the decs around the house. I did presents and cards for folks I knew. He did presents and cards for folks he knew. He's cooking the mains and I'm doing the puds.

Maybe it's about expectations - not just along gender "role" lines, but also the stuff you did as a child, how much faith plays a part in the festivities, what you think is the "right thing" to do for your kids, stuff like that.

Not entirely related but linked - Christmas is one time of year when families probably spend alot more time cheek by jowl than any other. The weather's usually cold and naff so you're probably stuck in close quarters as well. (At least there's a bit more space and plenty of diversions if you go on holiday.) That can be a recipe for disaster if there are underlying things that you can't avoid when you're in each others' pockets. Oh my.

I think the problem is that neither me or Dh have that much free time. I also do more in the morning but I'm a morning person while he is an evening person, so I've been going since 6.30am non-stop and he wonders why I am knackered by 8.30pm and don't fancy doing another couple of hours of housework/admin stuff. When I go back to work I know I will still have to do all the kids stuff and most the household stuff but he thinks I'll be more efficient at it as I would be less bored!

Crikey - I hope he doesn't put it like that, 'more efficient at it as [you] would be less bored' because that is fucking rude.

I can get really steamed up about this one - you do the work in your own time as you want and he does not get to tell you you're being inefficient.

If you're knackered, chances are it's because you are working bloody hard. That should be his and your first assumption.

Oh that sounds promising. Let us know how you get on!

And happy christmas!!!

I will do!

And Happy Christmas to you too!

Chestnutx3

If you both have very limited free time, it's even more important that it's shared out fairly. What happens in the evenings and at weekends? How old are your DC?

why will you still have to do it all when you go back to work? That doesn't sound at all fair. Telling you you'll be more efficient sounds really disrespectful too.

LRD good luck with the rotas!

With DP and me the housework is always, even after 17 years, our main cause of tension and argument. He's not lazy, he does half the childcare, he's currently building us a new bathroom as well as doing most of the childcare this week, and doing various computing projects, but he is very untidy and messy around the house. Also he's not good at thinking ahead about shopping etc, so Christmas is a time I can feel that more is falling on me.

My strategy this year is to make lists. We are going (today perhaps) to make a list of all the meals we all want to eat over Christmas, and what food it needs, and then I am getting DP and the dc (the 11 and 10 yos anyway, perhaps not the 7yo) to sign up to taking charge of meals or bits of meal, and the relevant shopping. This works quite well in terms of overload but it doesn't solve the underlying problem that I'm the one thinking of what needs to be done and making the list and parcelling out the jobs and initiating the "right all 5 of us are going to tidy the house NOW!" in the first place.

And that does annoy me. Causes many arguments.

In our house it's not so much housework as the childcare stuff that falls around the edge; you know, the Christmas plays and concerts and so on, which I attend (taking time off work) and DP doesn't.

OTOH he has done all the tree stuff, and ordered cards (I opted out of cards totally a few years ago) and wrapping paper, and bought a wreath for the front door (I don't even like wreaths, dammit, it would never occur to me) and is generally throwing himself into the festivities with perhaps more energy than me, as I would personally like to have gone away ALONE for the duration...

I think this is helped by the fact I am a dyed in the wool Ancient Feminist Bat of the type decried on many other threads.

Yay for Ancient Feminist Bats.

fennel - I think that one is so difficult to get past, the organising thing. Reading over loads of threads last night, it sounds as if even people who've got most of it sorted, still admit they do too much of the thinking - and maybe too much of the being flexible at need.

I'm trying to get better at not always throwing up my plans for DH - a few months ago we had loads of plumbing work done, and the plumbers a couple of times turned up much later than they said and needed access to places they'd not said they would. I study so I'm home but I rang DH at work and told him I had a deadline and couldn't take a day off so would go to the library and he had to come home. I really felt uncomfortable doing it and the second time the plumber actually told me off about it (!), but interestingly DH was fine with it and his boss said 'you should have booked the day off anyway'.

At the time I kind of wanted to post on here and boast I was channelling everyone here but was dashing to finish my chapter so I didn't.

I am not sure we will ever get over the organising thing, but I am also a bit lucky I guess that DP loves Christmas (tacky music, trees and decorations, fairy lights) so he can do all that with the dc while I can be bah humbugish in the corner with glass of wine and novel.

We had a slight tiff the other day when I mentioned that I felt I'd done too much of the cooking last Xmas day, my DBIL and I do most of the cooking for our joint family of 9, and DP said, I'm happy to help... but I don't want "help" I want people taking control. Hence my very specific lists this year. Ok we haven't made the lists yet, but that's part of my not taking too much on myself. Given that all i need for a good Christmas is lots of wine and books, and the pub will be open on Christmas day....

Oh yes, I have this issue with DH sometimes. Because I work at home I can naturally drop everything, of course...

But it's tricker for us because he usually works jobs where if he doesn't work, he doesn't get paid, so I end up doing it.

Luckily in a couple weeks he's quitting to start his own business/be a SAHD. I'm so excited, I'm giddy!

Anyway that rocks that you had your DH come home -- too right, and it's great he was cool about it.

It's interesting how being a student/working at home throws up so many feminist issues.

I'm a single parent and this really struck a chord with me.

My kids are with their dad this week as I have loads of work to finish as well as all the christmas stuff. BUT he was supposed to have them all week but didnt pick them up until Tue PM, because he was working and is now dropping them off Fri AM (because he is working). But I am working full time too FFS!! And now I also have a houseful of small children and 2 projects to finish by Friday eve.

This was supposed to be my free week to finish everything off for year end. Because I work from home he thinks I can just drop everything and fit around him. I will try to resist the urge to give him a festive throttling.

He thinks parenting is about fitting his children in if he doesnt have work on, whilst I do eveerything else. He just doesnt get it.

Rant over - back to work

A glass of wine and a novel in the corner sounds lovely.

I think you're right about 'help', it is a dodgy term.

I do think there's a lot to be said for very casual Christmasses with lots of room for people to wander off to the pub or snack on mincepies.

bohemian I agree that being at home throws up lots of issue. I find I have to do so much of the household stuff and childcare that it has made my life much less stressful to work from home instead of commuting to an office. In a way it was admitting defeat in terms of the balance of responsibilities between DH and I, but on the other hand I decided that constantly fighting about it was not doing anyone any favours and me being at home has made all our lives flow a lot better.

Pragmatism won over feminism, I fear. Not sure I belong on this thread.

Oops, I took ages writing a very short post back there.

dreaming - yay for your DH's new business!

The student thing does throw up a lot - were you on the thread with the poor woman who was doing a PhD, a part-time job, and all the cooking, and had lost it with her 'D' H because he was being a twit? It was something like 'WIBU or was DH about a joint of beef' and it's one of the few I've seen where after the OP came back and explained, all these people who would usually be on the DH's side were very firmly on hers!

elasta - no need to ask why he's the ex there!

Working from home seems to be another one of these magical situations where some people imagine you don't have to work unless you fancy it.

Oh no, I missed that thread (probably a good thing!)

BigBlue that must have been a hard decision. Do you see it as temporary? I admit, I would probably do the same thing, just to make life easier, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be annoying sometimes too.

I really can't wait to stop working from home. DH is so lovely but he doesn't really get it.

One day a week he's watching DS at home while I work in the bedroom. I tell him: Just pretend I'm not here. But he will still pop in with, can you watch DS for 15 minutes while I run to the shop? Oh, where is this, that or the other thing? Arrrrgh.

He's not trying to be difficult, and he is overwhelmingly supportive of my studies in so many other ways that I can't get too angry about it. He just has some mental block about it.

But now he's going to be working at home on his new business so I'm looking forward to showing him what it's like [evil grin]

It was a difficult decision bohemian but I'm a natural optimist, so am happy with my choice. As I am the lynchpin for the family, both in terms of organising things and doing things, the fact that I am much less stressed and don't feel like I am rushing around all the time means that everyone benefits, including me. The house feels much more organised, I can drop off and collect my older daughter from school without having to use wraparound care, I have regained hours of my life that I used to spend travelling to and from work, and I have been lucky enough to have a steady stream of work so my employers seem happy with the quality of my work. So this is not a temporary thing for me as it really seems to working for everyone.

Doesn't stop me beng slightly resentful that I work 20 hours a week from home, do most of the childcare, do all the laundry, shopping and cooking, manage the cleaner, and sort out all of our social lives though! But I'm coming to terms with it and am generally happy with my lot :)

I agree the 'working from home' choioce is a difficult one. For me it is the only way I can manage 2 kids and a full time job as I am the RP. but it does mean my ex thinks that I am just there doing nothing if he chooses not to fulfil his committments to our children. Every now and again I point blank refuse to fit round his plans. But in reality I like having my children around, even though it is not good for my productivity.

Fortunatley my new partner is completely different. If anything, he did all the 'wifework' in his previous relationship. He runs his own home, works full time and shares the care of his children 50:50. He is a breath of fresh air.