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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

male violence in training session

74 replies

vexedveg · 19/11/2011 12:24

morning folks. i have name changed for this post and it may end up a bit of a rant.

I work in a violence against women (VAW) organisation with a specifc focus on challenging the normalisation of the sex industries. this is my job and i love it. I have come up against some pretty aggressive opponents and whilst i do not enjoy confrontation - it has been addressed and I felt in some ways in control with those "debates" and arguements. am normally the trainer / facilitator.

Thurs and friday this week i was selected to attend training on an exciting approach around VAW and was really looking forward to it. the idea in this approach is not negating survivors experiences but on to encourage young people to intervene safely when they see incidents in their peer circles.

this was meant to be training for trainers so we would then go out and deliver this new package. i thought that, like myself, people would have to apply, give their reasons for attending and at least have read their pre supplied background reading. Oh no - not the case.

It was quite difficuklt on thursday. there was a 50 / 50 split of men and women in the room but very quickly, the men started to try and gain contrpol of the room. they talked over women, interuppted, laughed, eye rolled, sniggered and passed pieces of paper. Some felt confident enough to say things like "but women are bitches" and "the word bitch is a female dog. how can any women be offended to be called an animal. I love dogs and have 3 as pets."

when i introduced myself and my work - there was a palable increase in tension in teh room and was told i was a gobby cow, just because i told them what the focus of my job was. I did not feel safe speaking out in that context, a feeling shared with many women in the room. I raised my concerns with the failitators and also felt that alot of these men's understanding of gender and violence was of concern as they were meant to finish 2 days training and then go out and work with young men in their communities on the issues. i was told it was better to just have men on board and that to expect them to read anything beforehand was unrealistic.

yesterday a really horrible incident happened. One of the men decided to take control of a large group discussion through anger and aggression. he said that every women in that room agreed with and wanted sexual harassment really. i responded with a "please dont speak n behalf of everyone. I dont agree with nor want harassment. if that is your opinion - own it and dont put it onto "every" woman in the room" He told me to shut up, that i was miss f*king perfect and would never do anything wrong. I asked him to explain that personal comment to which he refused saying i was a humourless bitch who couldnt take a joke. he then got out his seat, came across the room and stood in font of me leaning over shouting "you've Fking won, you made me lose my temper" He stormed out of the room, shouting all the way at me but did come back to say that i was an ugly fat f*k who no-one would even want to rape.

i was mortified and so so embarassed in front of all those strangers. I did get support from women and men in the room, however he majority of men thought i had asked for it by talking back to him. I couldnt believe that they didnt get the irony that we were in training around no longer being bystanders and how there were no justifications for male violence against women.

he was allowed to return after he apologised to the facilitators. He did not say sorry to me.
the facilitators asked if i would mind leaving the day as they could not guarantee my safety.

it is being followed up through my work but it has really really shaken me. i was scared at the time but i am now to angry as he humiliated me and in the short term was allowed to get away with it.

I needed to share with some fem sisters.

OP posts:
AlwaysWild · 19/11/2011 12:32

That is fucking appalling Angry. Really really appalling! I'm lacking the words.

I don't even know where to start. The faciliators, WTF!? The guy who did it, WTF?! And the reaction of the people in the room that you 'asked for it', in that environment, let alone anywhere else, WTF?! (See what I mean about lack of words)

I'm glad to hear your employers are supportive.

Hope you're OK OP. What an awful experience!

LeninGrad · 19/11/2011 12:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

puzzlesum · 19/11/2011 12:34

I will write more but I wanted to say first: what a horrible, horrible incident. And I'm more than a little staggered that you were asked to leave a course on violence prevention because the facilitators could not guarantee your safety. Had this man stumbled on the course thinking the title was "Committing acts of violence against women: a practical guide"?

Prolesworth · 19/11/2011 12:46

Oh wow, I am speechless and like AW, don't know where to begin!

WTF!

The whole experience must've been TERRIBLE for you (as well as fucking frightening), and TERRIFYING to think that men like that are being charged with doing this kind of work in their communities. It must've been such a shock for you, quite reasonably expecting the group to have SOME CLUE about VAW and to be pretty much on the same page as you, only to be confronted with not only cluelessness and dodgy attitudes but outright hostility and aggression.

I can't get over it. I hope you're OK. And I hope there's some way you can feed back to whoever is co-ordinating this community stuff so that they can get their fucking act together.

Prolesworth · 19/11/2011 12:48

Can you report the incident to the police?

difficulttimes · 19/11/2011 12:51

Oh my god that is awful, what were the facilitators doing throwing you back to the wolves afterwards realy bad.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 19/11/2011 12:55

fucking hell!! ShockAngry

This is just terrifying on so many levels.

Hope you're OK x

TheButterflyEffect · 19/11/2011 12:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ComradeJing · 19/11/2011 13:05

Yes, I agree with Proles and I would also contact the police and tell the course that you are going to do so. How fucking dare they kick you of the course because, let's be honest, it is easier to deal with a frightened woman than an ass hat like this stupid prick. How fucking dare he do that to a woman in that kind of space (or indeed any space).

Absolutely fuming on your behalf and very Angry and Sad for you.

Sisterly hugs for you too.

TheCrackFox · 19/11/2011 13:08

If you don't feel up to reporting it to the police I would name and shame all over the internet the organisation that ran this "course" as it sounds like a fucking joke. Did your work pay for you to be there? Your company should immediately boycott them and state why.

wicketkeeper · 19/11/2011 13:14

What angers me most is that it was you who was 'asked to leave' - and that you did. So he's won. He used aggression, he was way out of line (this behaviour would have been way out of line at any type of training, obviously - the fact that the subject was VAW just makes it ironic in the extreme). Easy for me to say it, not so easy to do - but I really feel you should have insisted on staying and insisted that he was asked told to leave. If they couldn't guarantee your safety I think you have to take it further - no-one should have to deal with this as part of their working life (no-one should have to deal with this at all, I know, but at least as an employee you have some rights). Are you in a union? Do you have an HR department? Please don't just leave it - kick up a fuss.

Who were these men? Why were they on this type of course?

Scoundrel · 19/11/2011 13:17

I was wondering that wicketkeeper - what kinds of organisations did the aggressive men come from?

Is it possible that they were chosen to attend by their organisations because they patently had a problem with aggression towards women? Shock

TheCrackFox · 19/11/2011 13:19

Sounds to me like these men were honing their craft to be controlling arseholes.

sfxmum · 19/11/2011 13:33

I would say the training was clearly inappropriate, and not thought through, targeted or delivered in a satisfactory way. the facilitators lost control of the room for the word go from what you say. they should not be allowed to deliver this 'training' before serious revision

I hope you are ok it sounds hard to handle and not what you expect from a training session. He should also be the subject of a complaint as someone so clearly unhinged should not be working with vulnerable people, and that should be the job of the facilitators, but I expect the, to fail on that count too

Conflugenglugen · 19/11/2011 13:34

From a psychological perspective, vexed, it sounds like you held up a huge mirror to many people there, and specifically that man. I am so sorry you had to deal with that; and I'm not sure if it's any consolation that, in this context, it wasn't personal. He was face-to-face with his own shit, and even said as much.

I'm not excusing it in the least. The course facilitators were waaaaay out of line. I would put forward a formal complaint, imo, and contact the police.

WoTmania · 19/11/2011 13:39

I'm sorry you had to deal with this. This 'training' doesn't sound like it's effective in any way or addressing the right issues.

Scoundrel · 19/11/2011 13:40

I am struggling to see how it could have happened in the first place! I'm not doubting you at all, vexedveg, but assuming (perhaps wrongly?) that this was a professional training course, in what shape or form did these men think that name calling and/or aggression was in any way professional behaviour? Shock

Finallygotaroundtoit · 19/11/2011 13:46

Appalling. Shock Angry

Sounds like you handled it brilliantly.Thanks

Like scoundrel, i'm wondering if there has been some dreadful cock up and perpetrators of vam have some how ended up on a training course instead of a therapy session?

vexedveg · 19/11/2011 13:51

hi folks. in work but will be back to answer questions.

wicked - i have torn myself up over why i left. as you say - easy to say and not so easy to do.

OP posts:
AlwaysWild · 19/11/2011 13:55

Please don't tear yourself up over why you left. You do what you need to for yourself. You should never have been put in that position.

Thistledew · 19/11/2011 14:05

I would second reporting the matter to the police. He committed a public order offence of using threatening words and behaviour with intent to cause fear or intimidation.

It would send a really strong message to the group you are working with that such behaviour is not to be tolerated by anyone in any situation.

If I were in your shoes I would kick up a huge fuss and demand that the organisers support you. Angry on your behalf.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/11/2011 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/11/2011 14:21

This is awful.

I am stunned you are able to write so calmly and respond so eloquently to that. I would have been in bits. I agree a complaint would be a good idea. That must have been terrifying.

Pekka · 19/11/2011 14:24

What an appalling man!!!! I wish I could have been there to stand up for you. OP - I really feel for you. Please know that you have no reason to feel embarrassed. You were right to leave, I really believe it was the only thing to do at the moment.

thunderboltsandlightning · 19/11/2011 14:42

Who the hell was organising this course?

You should put in a written complaint to them and to their funders. Completely unacceptable.

The fact that the facilitators allowed these men to be verbally abusive in the beginning shows that they were completely out of control of the situation. They shouldn't even be involved in work like this, but there are probably grants and public funding involved so you get all sorts of undesirables taking part.