Ryanair are at it again with their strip-off charity calendar

[MrsStomp]

I don't know who has seen this www.ryanair.com/en/calendar but GGGRRRRRRRR - it has really got my goat. I think they've been doing it for a few years now. Here's some more of the coverage: www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3912561/Fly-Ryan-bare.html

The charity Debra are accepting proceeds from the calendar - obviously with being a 'charity calendar' it makes it all 'good fun'.

The first thing you see at the moment when you go onto Ryanair's website is a lot of women (cabin crew!!!) in bra and pants. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Here's the link for Ryanair's complaints section frd.ie/complaints/?language=en - well, you never know. Plus Debra's list of contacts in the UK: www.debra.org.uk/contact-debra.html

Eleanor raises a good point that has been raised often "Sexual assaults on women increase when lapdancing bars etc. open in an area. We know that there is an indirect correlation between women being represented as being there for sex, and women being treated as if they are there for sex"

It has been seen time and time again that the more men are encouraged to view women as something less than human, it affects all their relationships with women.

Women are often told that lapdancing classes and pole-dancing classes are 'empowering' and that if people 'choose' something it must be 'empowering' but at the same time how can a class of people (in this case women) be empowered by things designed to reduce them to flesh on display to please men?

This is just my view and not intended to slap anyone down at all.

I want women's liberation, to whoever asked. I haven't got TIME to campaign for men's rights- they've got that one covered, last time I looked.

i think actually women can ooze sex appeal in ways that men cant, there is the image of an adonis fierman and it's sexy yes but girls are simply sexier than boys, when looked at objectively (NOT OBJECTIFYING before you start)
but women capability for beauty doesnt make them the sex class, well not for me anyway

I wasn't being facetious, I was being serious.

I'm not especially pleased that this calendar exists.

Why do you think that's a joke, or rude?

chairman - I don't understand what you mean? You mean, objectively (according to you), girls are sexier than boys? Personally I don't find 'girls' and 'boys' sexy but I'll assume you mean men and women, yes?

I'm still pretty sure personal opinion is subjective, not objective.

It encourages men to regard women as objects. It's not a conscious thing. But it's a slow drip drip effect.

As a straight woman, I find men infinitely sexier than women actually.

"Sex appeal" may give some people a temporary advantage, but it is usually fleeting, and ALWAYS in the eye of/at the mercy of the viewer. It isn't a long-term career strategy.

the other sparticus
is that true? do sexual assaults go up when a lapdancing club opens in an area?
what research are you quoteing here? i'm not doubting you btw, i just find it quite supriseing.

Well yes, if you are a lesbian or a man chairmanmeow.

I happen to think that many men are much sexier than many women but that's probably becuase I'm heterosexual and people would think I were an idiot if I said that because I personally find that, that is obviously a universal truth.

Of course, patriarchy has succeeded in ensuring that most of us see the world through the male gaze so many women will also find that women are sexier than men. Lots of women don't get to decide what they like about male bodies until they are much older and more confident.

F me, if anyone thinks Micheal O'Leary's employees are totally 'empowered' in their profession. (Unions aren't recognised, for instance)

Look at the way he treats his customers, who can walk away - never mind his employees!

btw I've a friend who's an air stewardess - Ryanair is on no-one's dredam job list due to poor pay and conditions, compared to other comparable employers. Only an anecdote, I know.

anon
i mean as a straight male i like girls , so to compare the sexs' sexiness it's hard to be objective

maybe inpartial would be a better word

You like girls?

I do hope that you actually mean women there.

Erm, I don't see why you need to compare the sexes 'sexiness'? What purpose does this serve? Other than (for me, being a bisexual woman ... I do enjoy this sharing btw) hours of innocent entertainment?

What you do or think about attractive people doesn't really have anything to do with the OP, is all.

yes women

Is there anything wrong with seeing sex, sexuality, sexiness as something that can be shared and enjoyed without it being assumed to be a commodity?

You're missing the point though Chairman - looking sexy is fine, obviously, but when it's how you are defined it's demeaning and objectifying. And looking sexy is overwhelmingly how women are defined, no matter what they are trying to do.

Most people do like to be thought of as sexy. At 'sexytime' for want of a better word. Not to the exclusion of talents, skills and intelligence in the workplace or anywhere else. It's relentless trying to fight back against that attitude becuse it's ubiquitous (even if unspoken) and getting more overt.

From the Guardian
According to the Lilith Report on Lap Dancing and Striptease in the Borough of Camden the statistics were based on information published by the Metropolitan police relating to the financial years 1998-99 and 2001-02. The Metropolitan police have provided us with the following figures: 72 rapes and 162 indecent assaults in the borough in 1998-99, and 96 rapes and 251 indecent assaults in 2001-02, which corresponds to a 33% increase in rape and a 55% increase in indecent assault.

I cannot find a link to the original statistics, sorry.

Being sexy isn't about posing in underwear anyway.

As any fool knows.

Well said ER.

The police say that sexual assaults go up in areas around lapdancing clubs.

They're not militant feminists, they're just pissed off because it causes them more paperwork.

They're not making it up.

thanx sparticus, i am suprised but i take the research at face value

sini looking sexy doesnt, at least for me , make me think that the woman/man has no other talents attall. infact , nothing annoys me more than programms like 'next top model' where pretty girls are just talking about pretty dresses. a human being impresses me when they are accomplished, a lawer or a doctur , if they are also beautiful then i'm really impressed.

Are you genuinely 'impressed' by someone being beautiful?

I find that a bit odd TBH. I love to see beautiful faces just as much as I love to see anything else beautiful, but 'impressed' seems an odd word to me, as does 'any other talents' - beauty isn't a talent.

It may not for you chairman for many many men and women it does. In a very subtle subconscious way most of the time. But it certainly has an effect.

it's one thing to disagree that this stuff matters. it's quite another for it tgo be presented as a bit of fun, normalized etc and that anyone who holds a different view - is probably ugly and jealous and abnormal and should shut up.

See? Those attitudes are on display on this thread and - surprise, surprise - they focus on women's looks and conformity and denigrate their opinions and a side issue not worth bothering about.
Which is exactly the attitude that these calenders embody and promote.

Circular