is it possible to discuss ways to avoid rape without being sexist?

[WishIwereAtTheWiesnProst]

I have one dd, and when I think of the statistics and situation I have been in it scares the hell out f me that one day she'll be old enough to be let out of my sight.

So if as a mother I tell her that she should avoid drinking to excess because she might find her in a situation where she can't say no, would that be sexist or even worse would I be making her feel responsible if she ever did find her self in that situation and someone did rape her? Or make her feel like she couldn't tell me or the authorities?

I know stranger rape is rare and that walking down a dark alley isn't how it happens for the vast majority of women, but if I mention that there is an underpass (like in my last town when I lived in the UK) that had a dodgy reputation due to a few women being raped there am I then perpetuating a rape myth? Or again making her feel it is her fault if one day she takes the short cut?

If the majority of rape cases happen with someone you know do I have to explain to dd that this is the case and that if a man thinks he is "owed something" or pushes too far that she needs to scream bloody murder so hea realizes that what he is doing is engaging in rape? Or is this putting my daughter in the position of being his moral guide?

What do you tell you children?

fair point ladies, as I said it is a point that I am not seeing clearly about.

I would have wanted my mother to tell me that it was always OK to say no to sex, even at the last minute, even if you've already had sex with that person before, even during, even when you're gone back to their house and are not sure what to do. I also wish I had been brought up to speak up isntead of "being polite and tactful" in situations where I am not comfortable. I wish I had been taught no one has the right to touch my body without my permission - e.g. with people tickling me as a child longer than I wanted them to. To only trust people who did respect my bodily autonomy.

That would cover a few things. However, people who set out to rape you and can't be put off by you being strong in yourself - there is not really anything you can do - anyone can be attacked. Can be helpful to do a martial art, but I did one and was still mugged. Too shocked to prevent it!

"and as muggers choosing victims will choose the softest-looking target, and someone walking confidently, in sensible shoes, and with hands by sides not in pockets will not be top of the list."

Seriously? In sensible shoes?

I can wear 6" heels and still strut like I'm Queen of the Fucking Walk and Don't You Fucking Even Think About Putting Your Hands On Me. I don't think wearing a pair of Hush Puppies is going to make me much safer and/or less of a victim.

Edam- you can never cover every scenario. But I remain of the view that the more they've done the better prepared they will be. And I cannot subscribe to the view that because you can't do everything, you should do nothing. I want to launch all my DCs with as many competencies as I can cover.

I never said it wad the whole answer (remember I'm said I was watching for further ideas), but I'm a bit surprised that I seem to be the only one saying that it is part of it, and IMo an important part.

Slow typing - crossed with the last couple.

I've seen there is a post saying yy to martial arts.

And if you can run, kick and fight in spike heels, theala, good on you. I just know that it usually slows and hampers.

"Hiding that you have a vagina" - I like that.

But since it is obvious to everyone that you do have the Faberge eggs/vagina, it would be wise to lock your door/not walk through dodgy areas of town.

but even if you trained and trained til you were really proficient in martial arts, and could by instinct take out any random attacker, most rapes are by someone known - a boyfriend, a mate, a colleague etc etc

how many people would be prepared and ready to bust out the nunchuks on their dh? Or their boss? Or best friend, or teacher?

No - the equivalent of my body in the stupid burglary analogy is not me owning a faberge egg, it is being a faberge egg

unless you are proposing i hide myself completely from society? I'm back to the disguise myself as a Fiat idea

OP was asking about a range of scenarios. I have already acknowledged that self-defence doesn't cover all in the same way.

As I see it, the "protection against rape" suggestions fall into two areas

1 - don't make it so someone wants to rape you
(short skirts, "sexy" clothes, etc)
wrong - there's nothing you can do about what a rapist thinks about you

2 - make it so that if someone is out looking for someone to attack, attacking you would be difficult
(shoes you can walk in, staying in groups, etc)
right - there is something you can do about that

But even if you are passed out drunk in the dodgiest street around outside a club where lots of people take drugs it is still not your fault if something happens to you

(and yes we are only talking about stranger rape here, for acquaintance rape we need courses in understanding consent, assertiveness training, and red flags 101)

I would never plan on escaping an assault by kicking or fighting, meditrina, tbh. My DH, for example, is a hell of a lot stronger than me despite being 2" smaller than me and a lot skinnier. I could never even think of kicking or fighting him away if someone like him assaulted me.

I think as a woman, if you're being assaulted, your only options are running away sufficiently or making enough of a scene that people stop the assaulter. Because I live in the inner city, making enough of a scene seems to have worked until now. When I move to the country, running away and getting a big fucj-off dog might be the better tactic.

If you are going to say something to our not-waving-but drowning sisters, it would be "if something bad is happening to you, scream the fucking house down". And keep fucking screaming until it pays off. Let someone know.

Screaming didn't help me.

i think we should teach men not to feel so fucking entitled.

or issue all women with a portable thermonuclear device.

Sorry to hear you've been the victim of an attack, chibi.

How many people react to screaming? Loads of people assume it's someone mucking around. Or are scared to intervene, or don't want to get mixed up in something, or 1001 other reasons.

Someone once said it's better to scream 'fire' as passers by will be more likely to react in case they are in danger. But I doubt very much that if you were attacked, you'd have the time or the inclination to think about what the best words to shout were...

It would have really helped if the person who attacked me didn't feel entitled to do it, if he hadn't felt fairly confident that he could get away with it, and if we both hadn't lived and grown up in a culture whose response to this event would be to wonder what i was doing out so late, and at my age, and on my own and by the way, what was i wearing.

Hth.

So, yeah, you're right. It's much better to wear sensible shoes and do nothing, rather than - god forbid - wear normal shoes and get treated like someone who will wear whatever the fuck shoes they want.

The bastard who attacked my sister ran off when she screamed - luckily. However, he had clearly broken into her house with a plan to attack her - he had cut her phone wires, been through her linen bin and drawers and stolen all her underwear.

She didn't scream because she thought 'I know what I'll do, I'll scream', she screamed because she was shocked to wake up and find a strange man in her bed.

Sadly the ruddy police made very little attempt to track him down - it's a very scary thought that someone who was clearly planning a rape is still out there.

Chibi, I'm so sorry for what you had to go through. It must have been very frightening.

That's terrible Edam. I'm so glad your sister was OK (although I imagine the experience may have left her very very scared), but the guy sounds like more than a potential rapist, with all that preparation he sounds like a potential murderer too. Very very scary.

I feel as a mother the best thing I can do for my dd (and my ds too) is to teach them to be assertive, with a sense of bodily autonomy and also to be kind, so that they wouldn't dream of forcing someone else to do something that they don't want to do. To make good friends who will look out for them so they don't get stuck on their own in scary situations, and to be as sensible as they can be so they don't seek out too many risky thrills. Oh and to let them know that I will be there for them 100% if anything scary does happen to them.

I'm quite a fan of The Gift Of Fear, particularly the stuff he says about women in particular being conditioned to be "polite". It's absolutely true, I was assaulted by an aquaintance as a teenager and could have shouted and screamed but was too embarrassed ffs!
I had also totally internalised the myth that women should be grateful for sexual attention, and that as a "fat" girl (size 14 in 1992 = size 10/12 now, fat I was not) I should be more grateful than most.
One of the most popular insults from the boys at our school was "you're too ugly to get raped" :( god I want to go back in time and sort those teachers out!

I do usually wear sensible shoes these days, but that's because I worry about fleeing from terrorism/natural disasters too much

Sorry OP, in no way did I answer the question. Also I'm sorry to hear of people's bad experiences.
And I agree that the way to stop rape is to stop rapists.

I really like MsWeatherwax's post. I agree with all the suggestions she makes.

But I also think that no matter what you teach her, what she wears or how she learns to fight, you may not be able to protect your daughter from being raped - by a stranger or by someone she trusts.

What you can do is instil her with the knowledge that sexual attacks are the attacker's fault, and that if it ever does happen to her you will believe her, love her and be furious on her behalf.

If I had had that from my mum, I don't think I would still be hurting from the rape that happened nearly 20 years ago. Tbh, knowing that she and my dad held me responsible (and would not call it rape) has been at least as hard to deal with as the attack itself.

I'm so sorry to all the people who have been raped and assaulted.

That's terrible, leafgreen. You poor thing - not only to be attacked but to have your parents blaming you... appalling.

Nooka, yes, it was bloody horrible. My sister is still on anti-depressants seven years later. She had to force herself to go downstairs to get help - he had barricaded the doors, cut the phone wire and stolen her mobile so no other way of getting help.

He was clearly planning far worse than actually happened, thank Christ, but what frightens me is that he wasn't caught - so for all we know he may have done this again, and not run away next time.

Police were shit - hassled all my sister's male friends/ex-boyfriends but when they were all cleared, gave up. Took fingerprints but man wasn't on the system. When she eventually got her bedsheets and other stuff back, they hadn't been tested (police had promised they would DNA test but the stuff hadn't even been out of the bag). This is despite one of my sister's friends, a cabbie, giving a description of a man seen running away from my sister's street at around the right time.

Ironically, her landlord at the time was CID and they had been full of promises of 'we'll catch him love, don't worry'.

The thing that really hurt, though, was so many of her friends letting her down. Lots of people didn't support her - they were keen to know her when she was the strong one supporting them, or going out and having fun, not so keen when she was in a right old state. Swines.