Virgin Atlantic Ad

[MardyBra]

Sexist or clever parody?

There is a bit of male totty in there too. But I had to close DH's jaw for him yesterday when I caught him drooling over it.

I like it, particularly the use of the Muse version of Feeling Good

Used to be cabin crew for Virgin and Branson and his understudy were perverts. it was all image image image and believe me - we didn't look like those models after tramping down the airplane for 12 hours. Sexist crap to make us think sitting cramped in an antique 747 is worth paying £££. I can't stand it although it's an impeccably made Ad.

Branching my friend is a Purser and her DP a Pilot for Virgin - they'll probably know your friend.

my pal is cabin crew, other pal purser

i think it must pay off to be an air hostess cabin crew

thingy kardashian did it and made ££££

valid career choice i reckon

Off topic but many years ago a friend of mine worked as cabin crew, and referred to herself as a 'hostie'. It used to go through me - typing that word has made me shudder.

Anyway, as you were

why?they all say hostie as in short for hostess

Here's a nice, brand new (out yesterday) non-sexist airline advert.

And here are some interesting figures that are being discussed by pilots atm.

From the 2010 CAA Airline costs (latest official data) the breakdown of staff is as follows:

BA Pilots...................................BA Cabin Crew
Male 2972..........................................Male 4605 (34.5%)
Female 167 (5.3%)................................Female 8751

Easyjet Pilots.............................Easyjet Cabin Crew
Male 1689.........................................Male 1089 (44.2%)
Female 85 (5.0%)................................Female 2463

BMI Pilots.................................BMI Cabin Crew
Male 631..........................................Male 329 (38.3%)
Female 38 (6.0%)................................Female 859

Oh and Virgin who always like to buck the trend:
Virgin Pilots...................................Virgin Cabin Crew
Male 709..........................................Male 809 (27.6%)
Female 24 (3.4%)................................Female 2936

It would seem the same airline that employs proportionally more female cabin crew also employs proportionally more male pilots than the others.

Branchingout No airline would promote a cabin crew to a pilot position. It is the same as saying no hospital would promote a nurse to be a surgeon. They are both roles in the same job setting, but with so completely different that a whole program of retraining would be required. I know several cabin crew who have paid for their own retraining as pilots from their own pockets in their own time, and have then applied for a pilot position in their own company from the relatively secure position of their current job. But a straight promotion from cabin crew to pilot would not happen.

FWIW I work as a female pilot in a large airline, and it is a fabulous job. In 13 years in the role I have experienced real sexism just once. The rest of the time I am well looked after in terms of rostering and perks. It really is a job women can do - I don't know why more of us don't!

SM I know they all use it and why [smile)

Just don't like the word for some inexplicable reason.

smiley fail (smile)

even ffs
go to bed woman

fair enough some words just grate

That BA ad is great, but I don't like this one. It does go on about pioneering men, and only show men flying planes, it annoys me massively.

I like that ad :)

Someone I know was turned down to train as a pilot with BA because they said she was too short. She has been flying 747s with another airline for the last 20 years though

Mummytime I like the aviators ad, I like the nostalgia of it. The male-ness of it is being discussed at lengths on the pilot forums, and it was male pilots who pointed it out. It was also pointed out that there were no ethnic minority pilots either, and one chap stated he felt excluded too as there were no curmudgeonly old farts in it either. Also lots of joking about the amount of facial hair.

Yes, there were lots of female aviation pioneers - in 1940 one third of all people working in the aviation industry, including pilots, engineers and aircraft builders were women. Women set many of the great aviation records and won many of the big airraces of the day. But the fact remains that BA did not employ any female pilot until the 70s. So if they are harking back to BA days of yore strictly speaking there should be only men. The Kitesurfer advert is part of the same advertising campaign, highlighting the skill and passion of BA pilots. I think it goes much further than the Virgin ads to show women in aviation in a positive light.

StewieGriffinsMum best stay on the ground then!

Love the BA kitesurfer ad.

Hate the BA pioneering men one. Would it be so hard to have some women pilots in there? Especially seeing as women aviators from the 30s were so famous. It's not like we're asking for much - just a bit of inclusion...

Branchingout No airline would promote a cabin crew to a pilot position. It is the same as saying no hospital would promote a nurse to be a surgeon. They are both roles in the same job setting, but with so completely different that a whole program of retraining would be required. I know several cabin crew who have paid for their own retraining as pilots from their own pockets in their own time, and have then applied for a pilot position in their own company from the relatively secure position of their current job. But a straight promotion from cabin crew to pilot would not happen.

Er, I am not daft! :)

I do not imagine that she was serving nuts one day then in the pilot's seat the next.

However, I am very aware that she did not go the traditional pilot's route of university-airline or RAF-airline. Her first job upon leaving school after A-Levels was as a secretary, which she did for several years. Then, as far as I know, she joined Virgin rather than going to university.

I am not certain that her role was as cabin crew, but I understood her to be flying so I assume that was her role. The last I heard of her was that she was a fully-trained pilot, flying a long-haul route.

Hopefully there was some training inbetween...

Funnily enough, on the course of 18 of us at flying school, only one had been in the airforce (and he wasn't a pilot in it,) and just a couple were straight out of university. Among the rest were a nurse, a teacher, a binman, a snooker hall manager, a solicitor, a blacksmith, a sales rep, a DJ and a refugee. Yes, really.

The vast majority of airline pilots gain their licences through what is called the self-improver route, ie they pay for their own training and then build up hours flying smaller aircraft before flying jets. A very few airlines train their own pilots, preferring instead to let the wannabe pilot take the risks of paying tens of thousands of pounds for their training and then pick from the best exam results.

As a consequence, you find that pilots are a particularly tenacious lot - the kind of person who is willing to spend that kind of money with no guarantee of a job at the end is fairly driven. Often they will find themselves doing other jobs in an airline whilst 'self-improving' and are well placed to see when there are jobs coming up. But an airline wouldn't train a member of staff to become a pilot. It's not the way they do things.

Your friend will probably have paid for her own training - good on her, it's a very tough thing to do.

Messy there were no women in BA until the 70s, regardless of how many women were in aviation earlier than that. Honestly? The male pilots in BA are chuntering far more than the women about the ad.