In light of MNHQ's recent statement that the feminism section is in fact not a feminism section but a section 'about' feminism, perhaps we need to be warning people about this up front?

[Beachcomber]

I'm of the opinion that it needs to made clear that whilst the title may be 'feminism/women's rights', this section is quite different to other boards that deal with feminism/women's rights.

It isn't fair to mislead - lots of posters expect the section to be a place where feminist views can be freely explored without fear of posters' mental health being questioned, and a zone where misogyny is unwelcome. In reality, pretty much anything goes here and whilst it is, of course, MNHQ's prerogative to run their site as they see fit, some sort of disclaimer about the section seems only fair in order to forewarn posters (especially posters looking for support or exploration of sensitive issues).

Perhaps it would be an idea for there to be a header at the top of the section stating MNHQ's position?

All suggestions welcomed .

But why would it disappoint people, Beachcomber? It is an example of a type of feminism, is it not?

what type of feminism would that be?

It doesn't matter - it's a type, along with non-quite-sure-what-all-this-feminism-is-about.

The point being that there are different types of feminism/feminist.

BIWI.

I mean I won't bother to report stuff like 13 year old teenagers liking the sexual attention of adult men. I won't bother reporting jokes about raping MNers and getting away with it. I won't bother reporting posts calling us all 'absolute scum'. I won't report posts where men point score and when talking about domestic violence.

No point - not my job to police the feminist section (or any other section).

I was never much of a report post person anyway - I only started doing it recently because I had some silly naive notion that because MNHQ decided to open up their forum to feminism, that it was somehow important or valid or worthy to not let women hating statements stand on a website that has given such a voice to women.

That will teach me.

what type? what's a hardened rad fem? in fact what do you think a rad fem is? it's a stereotype and a very negative one. it matters.

BIWI: I think the comment that "this is not a feminist space" comes from MNHQ who -as I understand it- recently said that the FSWR board wasn't a feminist space but a board about feminism. I would suggest that a better way of putting it would be a "board where many feminists post" because being "about feminism" suggests to me some kind of encyclopedia thingy.

I think also that the FSWR boards is not a "feminist space" as often is understood but rather a board on a website which is frequented by posters of every possible political persuasion, all of who can and do post on it. Some are in favour of feminism, others are not. However, I think it is reasonable to expect that in a place where lots of feminists post, it is not considered wrong to highlight and question posts which appear sexist or misogynist. As it has become clear that many posters have been offended to have their arguments identified in this way, I suggested that feminism's characteristic of questioning misogyny and sexism should be mentioned in a banner, as to perhaps forwarn the newcomer of this possibility.

yes beachcomber. i will no longer bother reporting posts where people tell a woman who has just been anally raped not to tell the police because they won't believe her and they will just take her children away because it's her fault as she had taken some drugs the weekend before.

i have learned that that is ok here. we're not here to protect women or avoid dangerous life destroying untruths from being published.

we've all discovered that posting what we see as vile and disturbing posts is fruitless as apparently they don't break talk guidelines and it's better to let them stand.

Christ on a bike- is this rubbish still running? There is nothing to stop any of you starting a closed forum of your own. Any one of you could have done so in a fraction of the time you've spent whining and complaining that MNHQ won't let you have it here.
Secondly, unless something has changed, MN is primarily a resource for parents. Some of you don't even fit into that basic category.
Give it a rest.

i don't mean to be rude to anyone here i'm just shocked and sad and at a bit of a loss as to what this place stands for.

Tyr, I am one of the non-parents and that is precisely why I do not want, nor have I suggested, a closed forum or the heavier moderation of this one. Come on - you can't have missed all the posts where I said that, I'm bored of saying it myself.

I just want HQ to mod this forum properly and stop the wankers posting like they stop them posting elsewhere. Not really too much to ask.

the attack non parent feminists thing is straight of the page of the hate site that sent an invasion to the boards.

BIWI don't take this the wrong way, because I like you a lot.

It is my opinion, and I may of course be wrong, that using the phrase (in the context of this thread) 'hardened radfem' shows a lack of understanding of what feminism is.

But this is not a (dedicated) feminist website, so that isn't a big surprise - still feels a bit disappointing though. I'm CERTAIN it is not meant in that way, but it is actually very rude.

I'm preferring 'lack of understanding' to 'rude' however.

Same difference really anyway.

it is the same difference. if that's as far as they bothered to go with understanding what's been going on here.

Tyr!

THANK YOU.

So obliging.

I'm on the brink of saying do you know what? Fuck it. There's no point to this section any more. Let it fold. Let the MRAs have their snigger about it.

We can reconvene in an actual feminist space (do please make your recommendations, people), where misogyny is not tolerated and our time isn't wasted and energy sapped.

I'm happy enough to make feminist points on wider MN, and to keep using mumsnet. I'm in favour of keeping the Feminist Activism board, so we can let other interested MNers know about marches, appeals and activities.

I don't want to keep posting here under these conditions, and if MNHQ isn't bothered at all by the situation as it is, then I suggest other demises vote with their feet too.

A tactical withdrawal, if you like.

We do need somewhere with basic pro-feminist principles in order to meaningfully discuss feminism without harassment, so let's go and find it.

I will continue to post Feminism Lite in the main section, and I won't get frustrated by wankers out there then, because I know they have every right to be there.

Who's in?

I expect the use of the word was just a mistake and they'll come back and say oops. But the thing about a spectrum from rad fems to unsure newbies just doesn't make sense to me. It's a big board and a big job to moderate it, and I think they've just misread and assumed what's going on is nasty feminists being mean to newbies, which I can see would be bad.

I just don't really understand what HQ see the purpose of this section being. To be honest, I think perhaps they are being a bit reticent about saying 'fuck off you lot' to some of us posting here. I'm not sure why. It's perfectly within their rights to feel like that. As tyr points out, HQ could perfectly well have told me and other childless posters that we weren't welcom on a site called 'mumsnet' eitehr. And that would have been within their rights - if that's what the owners of the site want to do.

I would just like to know.

Tyr: I'm a parent. But there are countless posters on all sections of MN who have no children. What's your point here? Feminists aren't the same as other MN posters?

I don't think 'hardened rad-fem' is wrong - I've certainly seen examples of such a type (not on here, thankfully) - on one site I say someone describing herself as a rad-fem saying that all male-initiated sex was rape. There are/could be posters who would fit into the hardened rad-fem mould and the MNHQ post was saying that even they were welcome. Can't see the problem, tbh.

• I don't know what 'demises' is meant to say- something has autocorrected.

LRD I have had the same crap thrown at me by someone who came on MN to take the piss out of vaccine damaged children and their parents.

I was accused of trolling because it doesn't say on my profile that I have kids.

To be fair to MNHQ they banned her once it was reported that she had a blog that takes the piss out of a support website for parents of sick children.

Sorry for tangent. Just not liking the attack on LRD and other childless MNers but not seeing any point in reporting.

Oh, and Tyr? How FUCKING dare you tell us to shut up and stop talking about what we want this section that we asked for to bloody look like. Last night a thread ran to 1100 posts on skitting bloody Mitmoo. We can talk about something actually important to us as long as we bloody well want to.

The thing is, I wouldn't mind if MN were a site that banned non-parents. There are arguments to be made against that and lots of bereved or ttc women and men will make them. But ultimately it is the site founders' right to stipulate.

My issue here is that HQ don't seem to want to say they don't want people like me posting, indeed they have been perfectly civil and asked me and other regulars to help them out by reporting trolls. But their attitude here is problematic to me. Either they didn't get teh point (and so posted that very odd 'spectrum' that didn't feature the posters we were objecting to), or they got the point fine but felt timid about saying 'would you fuck off now please, we don't really want you here'. And it'd be a help to know which thing they meant, really.

'Help out by reporting trolls'

Their phrase not mine, beach - I know it sounds a bit wanky.

I'm with you BOF - it feel too much like hard work posting here. Discussions never get off the ground because they get derailed so comprehensively. It's a real shame