Have ordered Wifework....slightly concerned about the after effects

[TheProvincialLady]

I hadn't encountered Wifework before lurking on the feminist boards, but it sounds so interesting that I have just ordered it from Amazon and I'm really looking forward to reading it. But at the same time a little concerned about what I will actually DO with the enhanced knowledge that I am a Wife.

I willingly gave up work when I had the DC. We both discussed this and it was what I had always thought would be the best thing for the children. 5 years later, we have two children and I work a few hours a week (and really enjoy it). But I am now basically responsible for all the housework, all of the time. And getting the children ready. My husband does help, but he is not responsible and I'm not sure how this happened. It affects my choice of job but not his, the hours I work but not his, etc. Before children I still did more housework - partly because our standards are somewhat different - but also because he was raised to do nothing in the way of housework and has an underlying belief that it gets done anyway.

Anyway, a slight resentment of all this has been bubbling under the surface for some years now I suppose, and now it is all about to come to a head when I read Wifework. As the children get older I want to work more hours outside the home and so DH and I will be more equal in that respect, and I can foresee a battle over the housework and the children. So how can I approach this in a constructive way?

I posted this on the feminist board because I value your opinions and would be interested in any theoretical stuff as well as practical advice. Thanks.

But it doesn't matter about exact parallels, if each person trusts the other to be honest and fair, and there comes a time that one person feels that the division of work isn't fair, the other one would look at that and work to redress the balance, because it would matter to them.

If they just try to get out of it, what does that say?

Right, but I'm giving the example of literal sitting down things because they tend to be invisible as 'work'. And I do find some of those tasks quite satisfying. But then, DH finds his paid work inherently satisfying as well, so that's not a measure.

My life isn't a good example, because we operate the way you're talking about; if either of us say hey, this isn't fair, we'd look at it and discuss it and come to a better agreement. But part of the point about Wifework specifically is the fundamental disagreement about what is work. See my example about 'pampering' beauty treatments. Society expects women to do a lot of things as part of being a wife, and then calls them easy and fun. Sometimes they are, but they're still taking time and effort and emotional energy away from, say, running the world.

Hully .... exactly.

Interesting question.

I think the problem is, most couples don't actually analyse the amount of free time each has in that analytical, calm way. They just row about it, both feeling that the other is being unfair.

And one of the major reasons why men feel women are being unfair, is because they don't rate the work women do - wife-work- as work at all. I had this conversation with a neighbour yesterday, he claimed that his ex sat on her arse all day and then expected him to come in from a 12 hour shift and start cooking and cleaning and how lazy she was.... she was looking after young children at the time.

Ok, hadn't thought about "pampering."

Hmmm.

I don't know, I suppose there's a difference between a quick shave of the legs in the shower and a day at a spa in a mud wrap. How would one decide which were necessary and therefore counted as work?

Would we have to decide a fair range of body work that was necessary to pass in current society?

They just row about it, both feeling that the other is being unfair.

Yes, but how often to they want to do that before they think it's a bit shit and they'd be better off discussing it calmly as adults? Those endless rows are boring, dispiriting and pointless, surely?

Yes I agree with you.

And for me, it comes down to the basic issue of respect.

You only want so many rows before you realise that you should actually sort this issue out for good, no matter how mad you are.

But I think what really stops many couples sorting it out, is the blinkers. They don't know what the problem is, so they can't see the wood for the trees. So they carry on rowing, or the woman takes on an unfair proportion of the grinding domestic tasks.

But the thing about distribution of labour is that it's close to being a zero sum game. Not the pampering, etc., but the general domestic shitwork. So a man partner who is currently reaping the benefits of their privilege by ignoring a lot of the work has quite a lot to lose by discussing it calmly and fairly. So he'll keep pushing back, and lo and behold, the wife's a nag.

And yes, how do you decide what is necessary and counts as work? Look at some of the first responses to this thread, from people who were saying 'well but it's not fair to expect someone to clean more just because your standards are higher'.

HereBe, I also think that in most of these cases there are some overwhelming reasons why the woman doesn't want to rock the boat even if underneath, she does know that this isn't right. She's financially dependent, she's thinking about the children's welfare (and Maushart is right; while a child is better off out of a household in which there is open abuse, they are better off with two parents in other circumstances, inequality of labour notwithstanding), and don 't forget she loves her husband and doesn't want to risk the marriage.

So faced with dispiriting tedious rows, she rationalises it to herself so she can live with the status quo. She's lucky to be able to live in a mortgage free house. It's only her who thinks it's important to have a clean kitchen, after all. She hasn't been doing real work all day, just chasing the kids around, not like her terribly important husband. Women are just better multitaskers, you can't expect a man to notice things that need doing. Etc.

I know this becomes a bit reductio ad absurdum, but if the man is pushing back because he likes the unfair situation just the way it is, then that surely means he is an arse.

If you have to accept that he is an arse, how can you then live with him?

Ah. Rationalisation.

But, hully, if the woman then leaves the relationship, a certain section of society complains about them leaving over nothing and kicking them out of their house/taking all their money/stealing their kids/whatever.

Yes, rationalisation. The last thing that most people want to do is admit that their partner is an arse, it's far easier to convince oneself that one is unreasonable, overly demanding, etc. And, helpfully, society is right there to support women in thinking the latter.

I mean, look at the Relationship threads. If you can convince women that being beaten up while pregnant is their fault, it's pretty easy to convince them that having their pubic hair ripped out is empowering and it's a privilege to clean someone else's shit off a toilet bowl.

Tis but a short step to the long flowery dress and handful of valium.

I don't know any women who live like that any more. I used to, but not now, perhaps that's why I'm struggling.

I have to question Maushart's assertion that children are better off with two parents.

They aren't. They just aren't. That only applies because of income and if you take income out of the equation, the outcomes in terms of educational achievement, mental health, likeliness to be criminal, likeliness to get a job etc., are all exactly the same. If the mother has a degree, then even income doesn't make an overall statistical difference. Many mothers do rationalise, i agree, because they're not aware that the crucial factors in terms of outcomes for children are income and education, and because you have to weigh up how far losing the income of the father, is going to damage your and your DC's quality of life.

And you know what, I think that deep down, a lot of men knwo that and that's why they gamble on women putting up with this shit. I'm reluctant to face it, but I agree with Hullygully's implications here - that men who use their privilege to avoid doing their fair share, are really a bit shitty. Maybe it's the only shitty bit about them and for many women, the fact that that is the only shitty bit, is enough; but I think that once you've been single with children and learned how good life without wifework is, it would be very difficult to go back and accept it. Which is why the campaign to ensure that single motherhood is portrayed as ragingly selfish irresponsibility, never lets up. If women en masse stopped accepting wifework, men would have to change and deep down, they really don't want to. As a group, they have had to be dragged kicking and screaming towards equality with women, they have opposed all progress with a few noble exceptions and this area of equality is no different. I guess we shouldn't be that surprised about it.

jelly - interesting, that that came as a 'shock' to you. Maybe that made you better equipped to expect someone else to do some work? I wonder how many of us who don't have those expectations are like that because we never really had a point when we didn't know to clean up after ourselves?

Oh, lord, I agree entirely with Hully's assertions as well! And with your entire last post, HereBe. Just explaining how it comes to be that women accept the status quo.

i don't know but i'm hoping that actually what she is saying is that a child is better off not going through a divorce and having to make the adjustments after rather than a child is inherently better off with two parents tortoise.

sorry if it sounds like bandwagon stuff but the quote was about divorce not single parenting.

x posted. herbex does she say 2 parents are best or does she say that divorce is bad for children?

i'm thinking that being born to one parent and that being your 'norm' is very different to growing up with 2 parents in the same home which is your norm and then watching that go to shit and having to adjust to a whole new set of circumstances.

Yes that's prob what she's talking about thinking about it. It's a while since I've read it, so not sure - I couldn't remember her saying anything about DC's being better off with 2 parents even where one isn't doing his fair share of domestic work.

I've had to do lots of Wifework (in the invisible sense) to get my dh to see the reality of all this. He was pretty much conditioned to expect his wife to do everything when we got married, so it's a long slow, still ongoing re-education process.

The thing that has actualy made the difference and has (I hope) really started to change him from someone who would leave overflowing bins of rotting food to someone who actually notices when the washing up needs to be done, is that I have been absolutely clear and bluntly honest with him that this is an emotional issue. I've said, 'You do x / don't do y and it makes me feel z.' And then say it again the next time. 'You said you'd hoover and you didn't, and I came in and my heart sank because I was shattered and I knew I couldn't relax in a room that messy.' I'm not in favour of emotional blackmail, but I honestly don't think that my dh ever realised how much of an impact this all has on me, so I have to keep telling him. I still do most of the thinking for the family, but the re-balancing of roles has started.