Have ordered Wifework....slightly concerned about the after effects

[TheProvincialLady]

I hadn't encountered Wifework before lurking on the feminist boards, but it sounds so interesting that I have just ordered it from Amazon and I'm really looking forward to reading it. But at the same time a little concerned about what I will actually DO with the enhanced knowledge that I am a Wife.

I willingly gave up work when I had the DC. We both discussed this and it was what I had always thought would be the best thing for the children. 5 years later, we have two children and I work a few hours a week (and really enjoy it). But I am now basically responsible for all the housework, all of the time. And getting the children ready. My husband does help, but he is not responsible and I'm not sure how this happened. It affects my choice of job but not his, the hours I work but not his, etc. Before children I still did more housework - partly because our standards are somewhat different - but also because he was raised to do nothing in the way of housework and has an underlying belief that it gets done anyway.

Anyway, a slight resentment of all this has been bubbling under the surface for some years now I suppose, and now it is all about to come to a head when I read Wifework. As the children get older I want to work more hours outside the home and so DH and I will be more equal in that respect, and I can foresee a battle over the housework and the children. So how can I approach this in a constructive way?

I posted this on the feminist board because I value your opinions and would be interested in any theoretical stuff as well as practical advice. Thanks.

What SAF said. It's not personal about/at you it's personal to them.

Quite right SaF.

TPL, one of the most useful thngs I read on here was along the lines of: don't compare your husband and what he does to other men, compare him to what you do.

If you compare him to other men, he will almost certainly win because of course mumsnet feminists all have lovely husbands and so many other men aren't measuring up. But if you compare him to you, then you acknowledge that you are as important as him and you get a better gauge of what's fair and what isn't. For many women, comparing your hsuband to other men, is a sure fire way of ensuring you end up doing more housework than currently as so many others do so little. Also, men tend to compare themselves with other men rather than with their wives, so again get an inflated idea of how much they are doing. Because of course, in comparison with other men they're doing more, but in comparison with their wives, they're doing less, and unless you compare yourself with the right person, you're not going to get the right conclusion.

Also I just thought of a thread all about housework which SGB posted, will try and find it for you.

Here it is, it's not exactly about wifework but it's about cleaning up, hording, women being judged on their houses etc. Anyway it's an interesting thread if you've got time

Yes you are absolutely right SAF and I will have to get a bit tougher if I am going to stick around.

Sorry lots of x posts. I did read some of SGB's thread but from the perspective of having a husband who is a hoarder so I was looking for tips on what to do to change him (dangerous territory there!). I'll go back and read the rest of it now.

HereBe that is a really useful suggestion about comparing like with like. I don't want or need to feel grateful that my husband doesn't hit me, verbally abuse me etc etc and nor should I feel grateful that he pulls his weight in the household. That just lessens us both.

think so mirai - and a key part i think is that it doesn't tend to be reciprocated.

Maybe I'm totally brainwashed by the patriarchy but I fail to see this as work. I like hearing about DH talk about his day at work. It's one of the things look forward to when the children are in bed. (They're a bit too self obsessed to let us have a decent chat about adult stuff).

I just think it would be a weird relationship if you didn't talk about each others days at work/home.

I think you notice it as work when the effort isn't returned, maybe, somme? My DH is brilliant at letting me talk through what I'm working on and what problems/breakthroughs I'm having and I would take it for granted, except I have been in relationships where no-one did that and it did feel depressing, really. I agree with you it should be normal (for both partners), though.

Thanks SGM, I will have a good look. I've just got to the start of chapter 9 - very interesting so far, lots of 'hey, I do that/ hey, I though that was just me', but she labours the point about evolution a bit so I found that a bit boring. The bit that really jumped out at me that I had no idea about was 'financially divorce typically lowers a woman's standard of living by 73 per cent and raises a man's by 42 per cent'!

I totally get the non reciprocation on the work sounding board thing. If I do it, it is a bit boring and I need to 'get on with it' but if DH has a bad day it is a disaster. It is my birthday tomorrow. Normally he seems to be away for work, so I put it in his calendar. If I don't get a card tomorrow, shit will be hitting the fan. I organised a weekend away for his birthday......Last year he claimed not to know where to BUY cards in Belgium. In previous years he didn't have the 'chance' to get one as I always had the car.....I know I said he was lovely earlier, and he is, generally. But sometimes he well pisses me off.

I think a lot of men instead of listening to their partners talk about concerns, will offer a 'solution'.

If the solution isn't considered to be the end of the issue the woman will be accused of being negative, etc.

It doesn't matter if the 'solution' isn't terribly feasible or would be challenging for a woman to implement - he has done his best (in his eyes), offered a solution and any more talk of the subject is self indulgent.

that'll be the left to raise the children financially and make all the lifestyle and work changes to be able to cope with them then lrd. the stat could say - resident parent/non resident parent and be equally true i'm thinking but obviously the vast, vast majority of resident parents are female.

no birthday card is a shocker! i often realise that some of my ex's (all left by me bar a fling or two) were really very nice maybe if i'd been more pragmatic i'd have kept one of them but life seemed too short.

What pisses me off is that these things are not important to HIM, so therefore he is a bit mystifed as why I am bothered. It's the not the card itself. It's the fact that he doesn't make the effort - at all. We have in been in Belgium 5 years. The first year my birthday coincided with his boss's piss up on a boat thing. Subsequently he has been travelling. My 40th I booked a trip to the South of France - that has been the only birthday in 5 years he has spent with me.

Beachcomber that attitude to talking about difficulties is exactly what I do if I don't check myself. It's rubbish and a bit vain really.

I will won't trouble you with the minutiae of my relationship but I have already decided to quietly drop the unnecessary organising and prettifying of my husband and his belongings. I no longer care whether his underwear drawer is a mess or his shoes are polished. I'm not going to do anything about these things or "nag" (ie mention). It's just not going to be my issue any longer. It's not reciprocated or even noticed and I am cross with myself for having done it for so long, even before children.

Yes Beachcomber I read that thing about 'solutions' in some awful book about gender stereotypes which is supposed to help men and women understand each other. It's probably the only thing I've retained because it is true for us. Now when I need a compassionate ear, if I say in advance 'I don't want any solutions, I just want to get my feelings out' he's a better listener.

So, by reminding him of my needs, am I doing 'wifework' by taking responsibility for the success of the chat? Or am I looking out for number one?

Think I'd better get hold of the book!

i'm afraid it made me think of that book immediately. i do think it's a stereotype.

Funnily enough, beach, I know exactly what you mean!

Ah sorry if it is from a horrible book. It was something that came up in a workshop thing that I once did at work and all the women got it and the men didn't see the problem. In the workshop it was being applied to men and women equally as 'something not to do when someone you are managing needs to be heard'.

What is the book?

It is from that book. Think planets.

Oh shit, the shame is it really in that?

I haven't read it.

Maybe that was why the women in the workshop agreed, they had all read that book.

Portofino, I sincerely hope he does get you a card!!

Sorry, late to thread but since wifework and MN proved to be so pivotal to my own awakening I just have to add my two pence worth.

The listening and emotional aspect are very important imo and always used to feel like an extra 'job' to me simply because ex p would soak up so much of it every day from me (for example, i used to remember the names and pivotal 'plots' of his work and therefore be able to have a sort of 'yes, xyz name was totally out of order etc)

Whereas when it came to my turn, he didn't know a thing about my work life (to quote just one area) didn't remember names, contexts, issues of importance etc.

As soon as i thought it was 'my turn' to talk about my work he would either turn on the tv, play with his phone, talk to the cat and so on.

If pushed for a proper response I'd get 'but I AM listening' and if I kept on it'd be 'just tell them to eff off'

Well, thanks dear but that approach rarely works if you want to continue to get on with people.

The one sidedness of that area alone was exhausting - to supply never ending support and not receive any back.

twas strange to find you paraphrasing from it beachcomber.