The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

hully, i did my best. I reported, I reported again when it got worse, and I took issue on the thread. What else can I do? I'm still upset about it, I'm afraid.

madame - I suspect we'd have to be as careful about accusing someone of beign a paedophile as anything else.

oh, I was very careful to say paedophile statement.

christ alive. but I've seen similar all over the board. Lone parents, legal, relationships, AIBU...its not restricted to FWR

madame, true, but I bet there'd still eb an outcry. There was enough on one when I took issue with him talking about his 'experience'.

Kerry - one of the reasons the FS boards here have done so well is precisely because it's not an exclusive feminist zone where only feminists can post. Most of us like disagreement and having our POVs disagreed with.

We don't discourage disagreement. What we don't like is the manner in which it is done, especially the more disingenuous threads that can be quite skilfully derailed by steering the topic down a misogynistic path - e.g.

A discussion about rape becomes a discussion about how women lie.

A discussion about DV becomes a discussion about how women provoke it or there are as many men victims as women (which is a valid point but not the purpose of the discussion - which is how DV affects women).

A discussion about single mothers becomes a discussion of women using their reproductive abilities as power (to control men, to get benefits, etc).

A discussion about teen clothing becomes a discussion about how women like attention and therefore need to think about what messages they're sending out.

PEople can post misogynistic statements without being misogynists. THe difference is that most people will defend their POV to a point and then either back it up with strong, hard evidence, drop it while they think about it, or change their mind completely. Especially if someone points out that this argument is completely dominating the thread and derailing the discussion. When none of those things happen and the POV is still vigorously defended (usually just be repeating it, not by supporting it with evidence) then it's pretty clear these people are derailers/trolls.

We invite discussion. But we don't welcome misogyny, derailment and having our time wasted.

sunshine - yes.

i stopped going on the feminism section because it just became too fucking tedious with all the men on there spouting off. god forbid women should just have a place to themselves, eh.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon, you say about edd's andBob's posts demonstrating male entitlement, but to my mind, Pan's opening post shrieks male entitlement just as much.
Sorry, but it does, the 'big' male entitlement issues like rape and men starting wars get discussed a lot here- and rightly so, however, the smaller scale ones not so much. The benign, seemingly harmless -even apparently benefiicial- male entitlement behaviours seem sometimes to go by the wayside.
OK, a man saying that a site run mainly by women should be altered some way is way, way, way, down the scale in terms of entitlement compared to rape. I must stress this point. Oh, yes, way down the scale, but it is still entitlement in my view.
You know it is like: 'Hey little ladies, I respect you an' all but I really do know best'.

Should MNHQ actually do something to protect the feminist section?

What should they do?

Employing a moderator full time doesn't look like it's going to happen because any suitable moderator would have to be fully literate in feminist politics.

The real question is, do we believe that certain aspects of feminism should be challenged?

Or should it just be a 'Sit down and listen' section for all those who have read as many books on the subject as they can?

Pan is making a suggestion about something that pisses him off about the feminist board - a board that he is a long term member of, and on which he contributes constructively.

I support the request to MN for a review of their guidelines. In particular, I think a review of their definition of troll would be a good idea. I think repeated and consistent derailing is trolling for example.

At the moment I too am reporting all the aggressive, trolling, derailing, attacking, rapey, paedophiley, offensive, misogynistic, bullying, triggering, gaslighting and feminist baiting posts. And I am spending more time reporting posts than posting FFS.

This so called feminist section is a mess and lots of posters have been put off it because of the trolling - particularly the concern trolling. Just goes to show I guess, in this pathetic patriarchal world women have to hide in order to have useful discussions about feminism. I thought MN might be the sort of place to stand up to that. But it seems not.

I wish the feminist section would just realise that someone with a slightly different take on things or not totally in agreement with the main names - it not a troll

It isn't trolling to be a man. It isn't trolling to find redfems a bit off the wall. It isn't trolling if a thread moves into a slightly different subject occasionally. It isn't trolling if when insulted you fight back.

When a true troll comes in, they are (in the main) deleted, like the one the other other night.

The FS section doesn't need special treatment, the regs need to have a good look at how they react to a certain type of poster.

It could be a great place to discuss women's issues but all it ever does is turn into a them and us all the time, it's crazy

I don't think one has to be particularly well read to know that comments about 13 year olds enjoying the sexual attention of grown men is beyond the pale.

I do wish people would stop making out that what we are asking for is for the feminist section to become a high brow club for people who toe a party line only .

How about you be on the end of jokes about rape, being called a liar and 'absolute scum', being called insane, being told that the men in your life have fucked you up and that is why you are a feminist, being told you are a man hater, etc and see how you like it.

MsC - what do you mean 'the feminist section'. The section is a place on teh website. It's not animate and can't 'realize' anything. You want to 'realize' something, go right ahead. Otherwise, you're back to discussing things with individual posters just like the rest of us.