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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

1004 replies

MrsReasonable · 26/08/2011 17:50

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 30/08/2011 16:06

"Mental health; why do you take it so seriously? I don't take it seriously and therefore it is not a serious subject."

"Sleb twaddle; why are all you wasting your time talking about slebs on a board called sleb twaddle, eh?"

"Health; I'm healthy so what an earth are you talking about health for?"

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/08/2011 16:07

Does it really? I don't believe it does.

Nor do the very large number of posters and lurkers who enjoy it.

I think you should consider the slight possibility you're imagining things.

I'm off - blackberry picking with my neighbours kids. Should be fun. Smile

LRDTheFeministDragon · 30/08/2011 16:07

(That was to SM re the mysterious 'vibe', btw)

startAfire · 30/08/2011 16:20

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MsCellophane · 30/08/2011 17:50

So where are all these threads that attack feminists? I have seen individual posts but not threads. Some posts come from people who haven't really thought about certain topics

Most people want to discuss feminism, they not be excellent feminists but most people come here believing they are feminist. The problem is being told you aren't a good enough feminist, that's what drives people away

It also depends how you see feminism. Many women believe they are feminist as in they believe men and women should be treated equally, paid equal pay, equal rights etc. I have learnt that many feminists see it as a policital stance, which includes reading relevant books/text. Not everyone knows that, again that causes problems.

Some people, as mentioned above, come at it from a history of abuse, which clouds how they think about things, these people shouldn't be made to feel worse.

I am a feminist - I'm not well read (because I find reading and retaining hard, dyslexic). I believe women and men are biologically and mentally different but are 100% equal and should be treated as such. I am bringing up my sons and daughters as feminists - ie I do quash the myths I know about, household duties are spread equally, I've let them know that gender stereotypes are shite, we have never had gender toys for different genders, just toys,

I am also a rape and severe violence survivor - so find it abhorrent to be told I am a rape apologist

I also am a survivor of severe physical and psycological bullying (by girls) (which led to hospitalisation) and as a result have never formed female friendships. So read some of the way women speak to other women on this board actually makes me cry (and shake)

One of my first forays into a feminist discussion (before this board was made, it was in another section) I was left feeling physically beated by the words directed at me, I struggled putting my thoughts down (again dyslexia) and felt highly attacked for not being able to express myself as I wanted to. Yes, my words weren't as feminist then as they are now but they weren't anti-feminist, just non educated. I received many CATs (as they were then) from feminist and non feminist posters telling me they understood me perfectly and I hadn't been saying what I was accused of. I will tell you that that experience left me shaken. When posters shout others down, they don't think about how the people they are speaking to feel, how they may be affected by past experiences and so on. When I see women treating other women badly, I always try to speak up.

The feminist section can be so very fixed in how posters speak but all people are asking is can feminist posters think a little before having a go.

UsingMainlySpoons · 30/08/2011 17:58

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ChristinedePizan · 30/08/2011 18:00

MsCellophane - there are quite a few. Some of them are from people who think feminism is a load of bollocks, some of them are from blokes who have specifically joined the boards to wind up women who regularly post on the feminism topic.

I honestly believe that women who are exploring the subject and not openly hostile don't get a bad reception. If you have particular literacy issues (as you have said you do), when you are talking about a complex issue, it probably is a good idea to mention that in your first post so people will take that into account. It's very hard on a message board to tell if someone is being obtuse or not expressing themselves well so it's helpful to everyone (not least you) if you explain that. I hope you're not dissuaded from posting here.

BUT this is a topic where beliefs are challenged. And sometimes that is difficult. For example, many feminists don't believe that there is any difference mentally between men and women - it's unproven. So if you say that, it may be robustly challenged. But IF you explain that's your understanding and ask for people to explain to you why they think different, many will be happy to explain. :)

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 30/08/2011 18:02

Very well put, MsCellophane.

I'm sorry to hear of what you've suffered, and it seems your thoughts on a lot of issues are similar to what I feel. There's a difference between telling someone their views are misogynistic and telling someone that they're a rape apologist. I dislike the latter.

WRT to the attacks on feminism, it tends to be threads on AIBU, more than threads on this section. They're rare, but seem to be getting more common and more personal each time. We've had some posters leave/take breaks because of it.

There was something else I was going to say, but like you, I'm dyslexic... and I've forgotten what the hell it was... Blush

ChristinedePizan · 30/08/2011 18:13

And if that comes across as really patronising, I apologise hugely. It wasn't meant to be - I'm in the middle of children feeding so not concentrating - but rereading it, it reads that way to me Blush

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 30/08/2011 18:23

I don't think it read as patronising, Christine.

garlicnutter · 30/08/2011 18:32

I am really, really sorry you went through that, MsCellophane. I salute your determination and integry in posting here now :)

While not as awful as your experience, by the sound of it, I've also suffered trauma responses in consequence of participating on this board - and accused of being manipulative when I said so. Thank you for giving me the courage to re-state this fact.

I hope you will be treated as respectfully as you deserve on this thread, and hope you will be safe to share your views in future.

MsCellophane · 30/08/2011 18:34

Not patronising at all. I have mentioned it but I don't mention it everytime

I did mention it on the thread that upset me but it was ignored but again, it wasn't in the feminist section

The anti feminist posts pointed out aren't in the feminist section, so posters can't keep saying about having to put up with anti feminist attacking threads. There is lots of offensive/crap posted in AIBU about all sorts of subjects - so surely saying those threads happen here isn't correct??

There are some offensive posts in feminist section and I think it's better to ignore and report the obvious ones - but maybe look a bit harder before jumping on posters who might just not be well read/educated and not meaning to be anti/misogynistic?

garlicnutter · 30/08/2011 18:37

I feel I should add that I'm aware Dittany was also very hurt by all that stuff. Rather than persisting with the cycles of blame, defence, paranoia, attack, I'd like to think we might all recognise that all contributors are human beings.

Each of us has a legal and moral right to be treated with respect, and the concurrent responsibility to treat others with respect.

startAfire · 30/08/2011 18:39

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startAfire · 30/08/2011 18:40

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scottishmummy · 30/08/2011 18:42

there are many stands in feminism eg radical feminism.that is different from liberal feminism.how do feminists reconcile these differences (if at all) thats what is interesting.and you know what its not one size fits all. so what to some is glaring anti-feminism isnt to someone else.and no i dont believe any topic is off limits on a feminist discussion board - not at all.often it is the things that are unpalatable or challenging that need to be discussed

just as there are many kinds of liberals and liberalism,there are many kinds of feminists too

scottishmummy · 30/08/2011 18:50

start,human rights legislation gives clear guidance on treatment of individuals by state and statutory organisations. and when you work professionally with people who have been dysfunctional you need to professionally and personally compartmentalise. your professional role is to enact high standards and professional judgement.not to enact individual revulsion about what they may or may not have done.and if one cannot do that then certain professions are not applicable career choice

sadandwary · 30/08/2011 18:53

mscellophane...i feel very Sadreading youre post.
i hope you carry on posting...i also find it hard to put myself across as i want to [often]...it dont matter..i just keep trying.

SM...this safe space means[to me]...somewhere where i can be annon and talk about things i dont normally talk about in rl...where theres others that understand[usually]

sparky

claig · 30/08/2011 18:54

'your professional role is to enact high standards and professional judgement.not to enact individual revulsion about what they may or may not have done'

Exactly, otherwise how could we vote for any of them ever again?

claig · 30/08/2011 18:57

Very good post by MsCellophane and lots of good posts by scottishmummy and everyone else.

It's a good reminder that a bit of courtesy to others is always needed, and that applies to every single poster, be they liberal feminist, rad fem or even undecided and non-feminists. Only real trolls deserve everything they get.

garlicnutter · 30/08/2011 18:58

Yes, SAF, scottishmummy has given a decent summary of how the right to respect applies in public service. This also carries through in everyday life. You are not entitled to threaten or shout insults at a rapist or child molester, and would be breaking the law if you did. Likewise, no-one is entitled to do that to you.

This shouldn't need to be laid down in law, imo, but I'm glad it is.

sadandwary · 30/08/2011 18:59

well said Claig

sparky

startAfire · 30/08/2011 19:01

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TheRealMBJ · 30/08/2011 19:03

Agree with claig

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 30/08/2011 19:04

Well said, Claig.

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