You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

[MrsReasonable]

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

ScottishMummy, it gets a bit much when every thread about rape, all we hear about "Ohhh, but here's 100 articles from the Daily Mail about women who lied about rape".

Someone posted about Layla Ibrahim a few weeks back. Straight away, someone replied with two articles from other newspapers where they'd portrayed her as a liar.

Men are more likely to lie about having not raped a woman than a woman is to be raped. A lot more likely. Until we see 100% of men who have raped being punished for their crimes, we have no space to talk about women who "lie". Every reported "lying" woman could be another Layla Ibrahim.

i know all about the unreported stats and institutional lack of regard
this doesnt mean that some people dont lie
i dont get making an aspect of any topic unexplorable or past the pale.surely better to think and discuss why rather than cant say that here ethos

Because once we start mentioning the women who "lie" for whatever reason (usually misreporting or mental health issues) the misogyny takes over and the MRA's start claiming every woman lies about rape.

Of course you can talk about false rape claims and women being liars on a feminist space if you want to - nobody can stop you.

Just don't expect to have such posts applauded for their astute feminist analysis and usefulness to to the women's movement. Also don't be surprised if you are met with frustration at the topic being brought down to feminism 101/groundhog day. Again.

instead of adopting a dont talk about here it stance is it not preferable to robustly challenge?

yes a tiny minority do lie about rape.its unfortunate and disproportionately over reported. that is worth a discussion

scottishmummy, there are quite a lot of threads, including one with a title something like 'Feminism 101', that do talk about this question in more detail. If you're interested, would you like me to dig out some links to them?

I'm not trying to shut you up, but I reckon this is a bit off-topic from the OP!

thats the nub of it,assumption of certain topics=ok
other topics no,dont say that here
and thats how inevitability all the aggro commences. some are more verbose than others in asserting what can and cant be discussed

frankly i dont see any topic as off limits not at all.nor am i intellectually compromised for raising any topic.i am bemused at the notion certain topics are no no

i was on a thread about female dysfunction and criminality,and someone was apoplectic that i was discussing female criminality. her whole jist was yes but men do it too. Yes but female dysfunction is viewed within different frame of reference. and simply saying lets not discuss that isnt going to make a topic go away

I dunno SM - personnely I don't feel the need to robustly challenge feminist 101 level misunderstandings every time I encounter them. Nor do I feel I have some sort of duty to do so. Most of the time I would rather discuss stuff that interests me with people who are interested in feminist analysis than go over the same boring old rape myths over and over again.

for me,feminism is discussion,exploration,discourse.and i am intrigued by collective don't talk about that.the notion of making a topic off limits. i think thats what i despair about on the feminist board as i said the vibe of dont talk about that and how it is variously invoked

thats usually what causes all the aggro and name calling

Beach - isn't it always going to happen on an open forum though? I mean what you call 'Feminism 101' statements can't be banned so that a handful of posters can have a high level discussion. Every other board in MN is open to all MNers regardless of pov or experience. The Fem board or at least certain discussions are not. If it is assumed that you have a certain knowledge set and belief system before you even post on a thread, it's not an open forum. What makes MN the fab open discussion place it is perhaps makes a dedicated board which is only welcoming to some posters a bit of an anomaly and disliked by much of MN.

SM - what's the problem if someone was furious and disagreed? I don't get it. Was she offensive to you? If so, report. If not, well, the world is full of people with differing passionately-held opinions ...

stripey - look at AIBU and the responses to P&C parking threads!

yes a range topics should be discussed
nothing is off limits on open forum
and if you want a safe space with parameters on discussion maybe wont find on an open discursive forum.

LRD - yy there are disagreements in AIBU etc but not the and and 'not this again' and downright condescension that happens here. It's because there is a strong band of regulars - there is an assumption on here of certain povs and experience which isn't present anywhere else. Anyone can post on AIBU, most of MN can't post here due to the entry requirements.

SM - no, there are general rules that apply to the whole of MN, and they forbid namecalling etc. There's a disclaimer in AIBU telling people it's not a fight club. These parameters on discussion make MN a safe space. They should be remembered here.

On the current disabled/P&C thread, there is a lot of mocking laughter and silliness. Which is as good a response as any to prejudice.

Really stripey? I have seen nastier and ruder responses on AIBU, TBH. Mind you, I guess they often get deleted! And people regularly flounce/pretend to flounce of AIBU. It's just not true to say anyone can post there - many feel they can't. And, yes, others tend to draw attention to the fact that disagreement is normal and if you don't like it, you will struggle in life.

POG - what topic? blasted iPhone app

Entry requirements?

I find AIBU a far sight more condescending than this place.

im specifically referring to being told certain topics are not for discussion or not welcome on feminist boards

not the general mileu of mn and the posting rules

sb, I've pm'd you so as not to derail this discussion.

I ought to go, but:

'Anyone can post on AIBU, most of MN can't post here due to the entry requirements.'

This is just not true. And it gets on my nerves. I'm posting here, right? Ask Dittany (or do a quick search), and you will find I do not come close to her idea of the minimum standard of knowledge of feminist theory. Loads of us don't. Ask SGB, and she would say my views on porn are all wrong. Ask Sakura and she could tell you, if she chose, that I totally misunderstand the way history should be looked at my feminists. Ask HereBeBollox and she will say that we have opposed views on high heels. So what?! We all have disagreements. We all fall short. There's a thread by posieparker right now talking about how hard it is to live up to ideals and lots of people acknowledge they don't and can't.

When you say 'most of MN can't post here', what you are basically saying is that the regulars here don't count, or we should feel like imposters because we have no clue what those 'entry requirements' are. You're making out that a forum that gets a shedload of traffic, is full of people you won't even dignify by recognizing. Do you not see that this is going to get up people's noses?

Stripey, I don't think not wanting to have much of a discussion about for example false rape claims (in a feminist space) is particularly high brow.

I don't think people who are new to feminism who haven't encountered much feminist analysis should be dismissed, talked down to or made to feel they cannot explore 'beginner feminism' if you like.

Equally however I also don't think that posters should be encouraged to attack some of the more analytical discussions as being insane/extremist/man hating/whatever. Nor should they be encouraged to believe that every thread has to be accessible in terms of level of discussion to every poster who shows up.

I do also think that people need to take a little responsibility for their own education and do some reading rather than feel annoyed because other people, who have already put the reading work in, wish to discuss something that is outside their personal comfort zone.

This comes up a lot here and I think it would be useful to have a sticky that gives some explanation of feminist analysis/perspectives, some of the main patriarchal paradigms that feminists take issue with, and some links to sites such as feminist 101.

I think such a sticky would be useful because it would mean people would stop asking regular posters to go over the same basic tenets and concepts all the time and it would provide people who are genuinely interested with a handy shortcut to some of the more complex aspects of feminism.