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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Separatist Feminism - Thread Two

158 replies

LRDTheFeministDragon · 02/08/2011 00:07

A second thread to discuss separatist feminism.

If you clicked on this thread and want to know more, there's a wiki link for the basics here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separatist_feminism

On the previous thread there is more discussion, including links to some articles about existing separatist communities, and some personal experiences from MNers who live in a separatist or partially separatist environment. If you're interested in more discussion of separatism, what it might mean for feminists, and what women's spaces can do for us, please come back and join me so this OP doesn't sit unanswered like a lemon! Grin

Link to thread no. 1 (and kudos to the lovely VictorGollancz who started it all off) here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1259519-Separatist-Feminism

OP posts:
snowmama · 04/08/2011 16:25

That is exactly it SAF, and precisely that exchange of services between women, is the single most important factor that makes my current life possible.

swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 16:31

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swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 16:32

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snowmama · 04/08/2011 16:36

Completely, and it now stuns me just how much of my energy was used previously for so many years sustaining the couple unit....whereas now my energy, skills are shared with more people (in my case mainly women), and I as a woman receive so much more support.

swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 16:41

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Catitainahatita · 04/08/2011 16:47

Oh yes I understand completely now [penny drops]; this is how my mum managed to be a ft teacher while I was growing up: friends who were also neighbours and mothers helping each other out plus helpful grandmothers also on hand.
In my current isolation I forget that the possiblity of mutualism exists. Here if I need childcare and my P is unavailable I have to pay someone. This means -apart from work stuff- I don't go out much and certainly never with DP.

snowmama · 04/08/2011 16:50

Precisely, but I am not talking only about my marriage, I am talking about all my monogomous relationships.

snowmama · 04/08/2011 16:52

Sorry Cat, xposted, but exactly....

HerBeX · 04/08/2011 17:22

oh god I just hate looking after other people's kids.

snowmama · 04/08/2011 17:30

Lol, you are not alone..my sympathies...

:)

swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 18:29

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HerBeX · 04/08/2011 18:51

Oh she's gone home now, they've fallen out.

Should have taken her straight home after that sleepover and not let her stay all day...

kickassangel · 04/08/2011 19:32

this is just making me realise how much 'society' just does not cater for childcare.

one of the fundamental requirements, even of a basic society (stereotypical cavemen) is that babies are born & grow to be healthy, contributing adults.
within 'advanced' society, it is still a basic requirement, but with the added need for those adults to be socialised into following society's mores.

you would think, therefore, that maternity & childcare would be almost reverred. pretty much the best thing that can happen for society is for children to be brought up and cared for effectively. but society actually seems to work against that. look at how hard it is to have a job & children.

without having & caring for children, there would be no future for any of us - we'd end up dying out, and the ending would be pretty grim for those who hung on the longest. that may be best for the planet, but not best for humanity.

i am really thinking that until that job is seen as pretty much fundamental to the survival of the race, and therefore respected as such, then there won't be equality of the sexes.

just because it's possible to do a half-decent job on the cheap, it is treated as unimportant, and foisted onto women (mainly), then treated almost as a crime if we need time off work (be it a day or a lifetime), and that we are leaching off society.

kickassangel · 04/08/2011 19:35

oh, and recently I noticed that the business section of a flight I was on was 100% male. and we all know how welcome children are on business class flights. it kind of scared me to see it, tbh.

my gut reaction is to somehow make millions & be able to fly me & dd business class, rather than wanting a women only section of the plane.

VictorGollancz · 04/08/2011 19:36

The thread on cleaning reminded me of a short story that, along with 'To Room Nineteen' by Doris Lessing, affected me deeply when I read it as a child. It's such a powerful statement on the role of women.

'Weekend' by Fay Weldon

Fay Weldon reading it aloud

VictorGollancz · 04/08/2011 19:42

Shouldn't have pressed post. I think Martha's mother is a great example of how lone women can be viewed - paranoid, suspicious, damaging.

VictorGollancz · 04/08/2011 19:53

I've just been reading it again in the light of all your posts on women coming together to help with child-rearing and it's striking how separate all the women are. The dominance of men relies on the separation of women.

SardineQueen · 04/08/2011 20:12

Just marking place to catch up later. This is fascinating Smile

kickass's point about male spaces = men and female spaces = women and children was a bit of a lightbulb moment

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/08/2011 20:25

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swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 20:27

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swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 20:29

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SardineQueen · 04/08/2011 20:38

"women and children first"

Yes absolutely "women and children" is one group and men the other.

swallowedAfly · 04/08/2011 20:55

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aliceliddell · 04/08/2011 21:05

Yes SaF, because what women do in the 'private' sphere of the home is their own business and there's no need for the State to interfere with that deficit creating subsidised childcare and elders day centres. Keep it in the family and stop wasting tax payers' money.

aliceliddell · 04/08/2011 21:06

(That was a joke, btw)