Some men really hate women being single don't they?

[solidgoldbrass]

inspired by a couple of other threads including the separatism one. Have you ever noticed that if a man you don't like or know or fancy is trying to persuade you to date him or spend time with him or even just talk to him, the only really effective way to make him fuck off is to tell him that you are another man's property. Just saying No, leave me alone, no thanks, actually I am having a conversation with my female friend and am not interested in talking to you, never seems to work until you throw in My Boyfriend or My Husband.

AF - ha what that I'd be fine or that ex was an utter c*nt and life would be a lot better without him? Both are true. I'm still sad now and then and I do miss him a lot but I think I got over it the first couple of times he broke my heart and after that initial week of sadness I'm fine.

Thank you :)

Scallops - ooooh yes is it

both

But organicgardener, as handdivedscaollops and I have already said, very few people are rude from the first response, unless someone has just barged into your conversation which, in itself, is rudeness on their part.
We feel the need to stand up for ourselves be rude when that first rebuff doesn't work.
As I mentioned before, a man's response to your dismissal cannot be easily guessed, they could be violent, verbally abusive even insane. Every woman I know starts politely because you can never know who you're dealling with.

Anyone who can't take no for an answer is a wanker.

But a minor irritant MOST of the time.

We live in a world where only a relatively small percentage of desirable men can passively sit whilst women come to them to "audition" themselves as potential partners. The reality for most is that they are expected to make the initial approach and do the conversational running.

For many it takes time and effort to break through initial reluctance or feigned disinterest to "win" a positive response. It may all look very foolish but it is still a deeply engrained mating ritual, part of an unspoken game which both sides seem compelled to play. The downside is that many guys will lack social awareness to recognise a genuine negative response (as opposed to a mere test of their worthiness), or they will have developed too thick a skin from many rejections. Unfortunately the drive to find a mate is overwhelming for most creatures and society dictates that they must keep plugging away until they succeed.

I don't think it is all that surprising that some make a nuisance of themselves along the way. If women were expected to take the more active role there is a pretty good chance that more of them would be irritating guys with their advances.

Women are so conditioned not to say no, to be polite, to smile and accept that I think a woman who says 'no thank you' to a drink or a dance or a conversation can be quite a shock to some men. Especially the kind who comes and thinks it's ok to interrupt a conversation.

Something I'm consciously working on is saying no without any explanation. I find it very hard to do. Also, as a side point, accepting a compliment without diminishing it.

"feigned disinterest" Really? Or real disinterest that some men decide to interpret as feigned to suit their purpose? I have never said no to a man's advances out of feigned disinterest. It has always been plain and simple disinterest.

If they really want to get to know someone, why interrupt a conversation they are having, why ignore what they are saying to you, why assume that the woman you are speaking to wants to speak to you? All that screams privelege, entitlement and lack of respect.

"If women were expected to take the more active role there is a pretty good chance that more of them would be irritating guys with their advances." Two wrongs don't make a right .

"But being approached in a reasonable fashion initially and then refusing that approach by being rude is wrong."

This thread has never been about that though.

My absolute worst experience went on for ages and ages.

This one guy kept asking me and asking me and asking me, every night he saw me at my local pub. One night I was there I saw one of my friends run to the girls toilets to be sick, and followed her. Imagine my surprise when he walked in behind me! Turns out he thought I'd gone in alone and he thought I'd have sex with him in the loos.

Doesn't end there though.

Next day he tells me that I'd have had sex with him if my friend wasn't there. To which I, quite understandably, pointed out that I wouldn't sleep with him if he was the last man on earth and there was a gun to my head.

It still doesn't stop.

It took until a night, many months later, when he tried to sign his name on my arm (!!!) that I yelled at him in front of a packed pub that he was a child and he made me sick.

As I said, organic, I really enjoy a good chat in a pub or a club. But this thread isn't about that.

This one guy kept asking me and asking me and asking me, every night he saw me at my local pub. One night I was there I saw one of my friends run to the girls toilets to be sick, and followed her. Imagine my surprise when he walked in behind me! Turns out he thought I'd gone in alone and he thought I'd have sex with him in the loos.

FFS that's uber creepy :/

Slightly off topic; I've just been sitting in the office listening to Human League's 'Don't you want me' seems such an appropriate tune for this discussion:

'Don't/ Don't you want me/ You know I don't belive you/ When you say that you don't need me/ It's much to late to find/ When you think you've changed your mind/ You'd better change it back or we will both be sorry'

sounds kind of familiar...

"it takes time and effort to break through initial reluctance or feigned disinterest to "win" a positive response"

Seriously?!

Surely the only women that "feign disinterest" aren't worth the hassle anyway. The best idea would be to walk away if someone acts disinterested, that way it's a win-win.

Either they are disinterested, in which case, great.
Or they are pretending, in which case, they aren't worth the effort.

Or is that too sensible?

Empusa gods that's awful, I probably would never have gone back to that bar good on you embarrassing him in front of the whole pub.

Handdived- of course it might well be real, but let's not pretend that for some there is a whole game to be played out (remember the Rules?). what might scream out entitlement to you might also be the result of a man knowing that if he fails to "act", to actually make something happen he might lose at life's great race to pass on his genes!

Add to that the fact that some people are just social failures and yet they are still driven to seek out a mate, ever more desperately as some little self awareness tells them that their chances are slim and you have a recipe for disaster ( and much annoyance).

I didn't want to be intimidated out of a pub I loved, plus I was a regular and knew I was safe. My friends wouldn't leave me alone, neither would the staff.

Empusa - I'm sure many men would walk away, either because they were scared off or couldn't be bothered. There are others though who claim to like "the thrill of the chase" and would enjoy it. I suppose that is fine if both parties are playing a game, but becomes very unpleasant when they mistake a genuine rejection (or worse, ignore it thinking they can turn it around with their "charm").

I am not really sure what you are getting at Bluegrass. What whole game? What rules?

"what might scream out entitlement to you might also be the result of a man knowing that if he fails to "act", to actually make something happen he might lose at life's great race to pass on his genes!" That's the same thing though . The entitlement shown is that he might lose at life's great race to pass on his genes.

Empusa - I have found that often approaches by men have been worse when they have been passing acquaintances rather than men I have never met before .

Think Bluegrass is getting at the fact that women are told not to appear too interested and to play hard to get. The book 'The Rules' taught people how to snag a guy by playing a game.

Sorry, I thought the reference to dating (or mating) as a "game" was a fairly well known cultural trope, which recognises that it is carried out against a backdrop of complex but generally unspoken rules (one of which is the relative active versus passive roles expected of the participants).

As for entitlement, I was suggesting it was behaviour that might be explained as a (often rather desperate) response to pressure (ie a pressure to mate). I think that captures a different tone to "entitlement", but I am tapping away on a phone so it is too much effort to expand I'm afraid!

'The Rules' sounds like a sexist, dated piece of trash to me. If you're interested, be interested. This whole 'she's playing hard to get' thing only encourages men to ignore all boundries, hardly helpful to anyone.

Very true, and yet the idea that "men must do the chasing" is still prevalent and pervasive, and informs much of what we see happen all around us in bars across the country.

That's what I thought queen and basically is what this whole thread is about - men ignoring boundaries because of some notion that women want it really.

Rules? Gah! Why can't people just be honest, for pity sake? The whole notion of what women want is just so much snake oil peddled by pop psychologist trying to screw a buck or two out of people who are confused and insecure. It really sucks.

Remember very vividly now why I never, ever bothered with bloody bars and clubs.