Some men really hate women being single don't they?

[solidgoldbrass]

inspired by a couple of other threads including the separatism one. Have you ever noticed that if a man you don't like or know or fancy is trying to persuade you to date him or spend time with him or even just talk to him, the only really effective way to make him fuck off is to tell him that you are another man's property. Just saying No, leave me alone, no thanks, actually I am having a conversation with my female friend and am not interested in talking to you, never seems to work until you throw in My Boyfriend or My Husband.

Most people do think it is OK for a man to chat up a woman and be persistent as long as it does not over step the mark into abuse or assault.

Hollywood comedies are based upon the premise that boy chases girl, girl says no, he chases her a bit more and gets there in the end.

Don't call me an idiot because my views are representative of the real world; you may not like this, but, believe me, it is the way most people see things-like it or not.

In the article SolidGoldBrass presented earlier, it says that most people laugh off a persistent male.

Why is this even a subject for discussion if this is not the case? Why is this even being discussed here if it is not the norm to shrug off non-abusive but persistent males?
You can call me an idiot because you disagree with me, but not because I do not see things clearly.

Nice of you to call me an idiot, though, Empusa, YOU obviously think it OK to chuck abuse about, I must say.

Well you've walked into that one Warmster... Citing Hollywood as the real world will keep this thread going for another few hours!

OK, jennyvstheworld, point taken, but the majority of people are not horrified by these movies, are they? They don't see the behaviour by the males as shocking or anything -as they would in movie about horror or rape.

Now according to the continuum theory, they should be shocked and horrified by romantic movies, shouldn't they? But most people do not think about the continuum theory.

Now maybe they are wrong not to see the connection, but the fact is that they don't and do think that persistence without abuse/assault is OK.

I just take issue at being called an idiot for merely pointing out that this is the case.

what is your premise? That most people are idiots?

Well, I'm not really sure that I agree with all of your posts, but I think it's usually the case that people can accuse people with whom they do not agree 'idiots' regardless of who is right (there is no universal truth, of course (including that very statement!)) and regardless of whether they think of themselves as open-minded foot soldiers for equality.

what?

d'you fancy saying that clearly?

My thoughts are that even if there is a grain of truth in this continuum idea (maybe there is, maybe there is not), most people do not think about the connection between a persistent bloke chatting a woman up with actual rape (as long as not abusive/violent).

If they do see the connection, why the need for a thread such as this?

I pointed out this and, for some reason my words, got twisted by Empusa

Maybe most people are idiots not to see the connection, I don't know, but I think it's safe to say that this is how they see it all the same.

"If they do see the connection, why the need for a thread such as this?"

I agree with you, i suspect that most people don't see the connection.

Hence the need for this thread.

Wamster I have never seen a hollywood film which depicted a man pester and pursue a woman around a pub, when she was clearly not interested, and asked him to go away, and he wouldn't. And that was the film

You talk about men chatting women up. This thread is not about men chatting women up.
You talk about hollywood films where men are told no and then over a period of time the woman comes around. Over a period of time, note. Not over the course of 40 mins.

You keep bringing up completely unrelated situations.

Wamster, if a guys tries chatting me up whilst I'm in the pub, and I tell him I'm not interested, I'd expect him to go the hell away.

Please explain why I should have to put up with him continuing until I leave?

Jenny if you discount stats and (for the same reason) anecdotal experience, then how can we ever know whether something is a problem or not?

Report after report concludes that there is a lot of rape in the UK and around the world. But if you won't have the stats and won't have the personal experience then how can it be recognised as a problem, how can funding be secured to help, how can people be expected to care? Using figures of this type is the only way to do it. I would have thought that things like government and police figures would be acceptable to most people.

sardineQueen I am sorry but it is clear that the subject I am talking about is the persistence of men who still chase women even if the woman has said no- this is the subject of a lot of movies. It may take place on a smaller scale in a pub, but the theme persistence is the same.

This whole thread is about the persistence of men and of course it is about persistent men chatting people up- read the opening post!

"My thoughts are that even if there is a grain of truth in this continuum idea (maybe there is, maybe there is not), most people do not think about the connection between a persistent bloke chatting a woman up with actual rape (as long as not abusive/violent)."

How about rephrasing this to

"My thoughts are that even if there is a grain of truth in this continuum idea (maybe there is, maybe there is not), most people do not think about the connection between a persistent bloke harassing a woman with actual rape (as long as not abusive/violent)."

This thread is not about chatting up. It is about when the line is crossed between normal interaction and harassment.

Wamster you honestly cannot see the difference between a man pursuing a woman who is not interested around a pub

and

A couple of people who (eg) work together and initially one is not interested, but over a period of months or years they realise that actually they like them

?

Seriously?

You should expect him to go away- I certainly would, but I would not automatically see it as a major threat if he did not go away immediately unless he became abusive/violent.

I would not automatically think, 'rapist'-for although I do see that some men may follow the continuum to rape, others are just persistent and see it all as a game and would never assault or abuse.

A lot would depend on instinct and body language and not just words.

I also think that hollywood has a lot to answer for, in that many films romanticise behaviour which is actually weird, creepy, obsessive or just totally unlikely.

?

No-one on this thread has said that if a man is persistent he is automatically a major threat.

Certainly it's not great behaviour but it's not a given that they are violent.

Again you are deliberately misunderstanding what people are saying.

Please stop talking to me Jenny I've lost interest in your gibberish for now.

Yes, I take your point SQ, but clearly not all statistics have equal merit. Nor do anecotes necessarily represent reality. I accept that both have a place, I was thinking more about the 'random and arbitary' end of the spectrum. There's every reason (for all sorts of reasons; levels of reporting being one that was mentioned) that put the 1 in 60 claim into this category.

If your levels of reporting comment is correct that would mean that you discount all stats on under-reported crimes - rape, sexual assault, child abuse, DV and all the rest of it. And presumably take the same hard line on over-reported crimes like mobile phone theft.

I think that in order to have a conversation about these topics it is perfectly reasonable to draw on statistics from generally accepted sources, and it is also acceptable to talk about the results of smaller / less reputable studies and personal experience as they raise interesting points for discussion. Most people are aware of the line "lies, damn lies and statistics" and that there are studies to prove almost anything you want to prove. But still you have to start somewhere, and sources like the crime survey and home office studies seem reasonable starting points. Once you have accepted a problem is there, and start to look deeper into it, smaller studies are interesting for throwing up ideas to consider.

Yep, SQ. Fair enough