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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism and housework and hoarding and Flylady...

274 replies

solidgoldbrass · 30/07/2011 23:23

I would love to get some feminist perspective on this because I am struggling at the moment. I have always been a housework avoider, always had a messy house, and I used to say that it was a good way of making sure any man i shagged never got any ideas about me being a little home-maker for him.
It's gradually dawned on me that I actually have a bit of a problem WRT hoarding, and I would like to sort it out, I know some MNers love Flylady but one look at the site made me queasy because it seems so very much 'Women! Embrace housework, it';s your destiny.'
Any thoughts anyone?

OP posts:
StewieGriffinsMom · 02/08/2011 02:33

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sakura · 02/08/2011 02:34

In Japan the toilets clean themselves! Not kidding. My toilet has got all these buttons on it and I don't know what half of them mean.

Either that or DH is doing it Blush

StewieGriffinsMom · 02/08/2011 02:38

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swallowedAfly · 02/08/2011 07:31

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TimeWasting · 02/08/2011 07:51

Victor I was doing the 'resisting feminity' experiment in full force when I was first getting into minimalism.
I've found it very annoying that DH has more grooming stuff than most men (hair straighteners for instance) and I have much less than most women, (don't own a brush of my own Grin) yet I still have loads more than him.

I've started shaving legs and pits again ocassionally, and replaced my foundation, but I'm planning on cutting my hair very short in the New Year. (It's got that luscious pregnant thing going on right now, couldn't cut it off now) and I've always got an eye out for money/time-saving toiletries.

swallowedAfly · 02/08/2011 08:30

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WhollyGhost · 02/08/2011 08:33

I think the flylady dress to shoes and moisturise (or put on makeup if you wear it) before doing anything else really works. Somehow being vaguely presentable puts you in a different frame of mind when sorting through accumulated crap.

I've never had short hair simply because I love the ease with which I can twist mine up and forget about it.

holyShmoley · 02/08/2011 08:35

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TimeWasting · 02/08/2011 08:46

holy, appreciate the love, but perhaps the longer version might be clearer??

I never had long hair as a child and never learned what to do with it once I did. It's curly too, which requires special treatment. It is a pain.

kellestar · 02/08/2011 08:51

I will start with Hoarding, both me and DH are hoarders, but in specific areas and only useful things. We are lucky to have two sheds and we rent a garage from the council for storage. DH hoards wood, metal off cuts etc, he is quite handy so it does get used eventually. I hoard haberdashery, buttons, ribbon, wool and fabric mainly. I have one room my hoarding is allowed in. I like to use it and if a friend needs something, I can usually let it go. But after clearing my great great aunts recently my hoard has trebled, but I am impatient to use it. She was a dressmaker and had left me all her material and related paraphenalia. Which is heaven for me.

Housework - well I am on maternity leave at the moment, but plan to work for my DH next year doing admin from home for him. We share the duties, which MiL hates, she has a perfect domestic ideal from the '40's. She lives nearby and constantly goes on at me. I have one tidy room, which is the playroom. But all others have that lived in chaos. i have quite a few mums come aroubd for coffee and though I do feel embarrassed, it's me and don't want to be someone else. They have commented but not in a bad way. Though their houses are tidy within an inch, but some haven't had the years to accumulate so much stuff.

I love freecycle and charity shops. If i have alot of stuff to clear I start with a garage sale or lawn sale, offer it cheap and it will find a home, freecycle next and then charity shop.

I was given a box of 1940's OS maps when I was 12 or so and had a map obsession. They were used as wall paper some 10 years later in our downstairs bathroom. I only hoard within limits. Clearing out or letting go is the hardest thing to do.

My mum was a neat freak and never kept anything, which is probably why I am like this now. My best friend's house was chaos and I loved it, we would go exploring and see what we could find. It wasn't squalor, but her mum had tons of books and she collected every issue of somesuch magazine, rooms full of bits and bobs, trinkets on every surface. Suitcases and suitcases of clothes, we loved dressing up.

When DD is older she will learn chores, if we have anymore so will they. It's a life skill no matter if they are boy or girl. Dad was bought up equal with his sister and brothers, wjen they were old enough they took turns cooking, clearing up, ironing. Gran worked amd wanted them to learn life skills. Dad taught me darning and how to repair a buttonhole, not mum. I want my kids to be like that too. DH didn't know how to peel a potato when we first met, MiL again, she was furious if we made cakes at my house. We were 15 when we first started dating. I made cakes at least once a week, he now makes a mean chocolate fudge cake. He makes it for MiL's Birthday every year, she glares at me, obviously it should be my duty Grin

kellestar · 02/08/2011 09:14

Oh and flylady is rather annoying... But realise that some of it does make sense. I live for lists, which makes it easy for me and DH to know whats bern done or not. Our fridge has them on, the cleaning chores are hidden inside a kitchen cupboard, but we can easily see what has been done/needs doing.

I too have cut down on 'products' I hate receiving them as a gift as it's generally stuff I have a lot of. So it goes on freecycle or tombola stall at whatever fete is soonest. My mum bought me some bubble bath, knowing that we only have a shower. I hate using it as a showergel at it's too foamy. DH uses the same showergel/soap/shampoo/moisturiser as me so it's usually light scents or none at all. I hate whiffy products and will choose neutral smelling over rose, lavendar and hibiscus. I draw the line at sharing pit rocks.

Also cleaning cupboard has three products, multipurpose cleaner, bleach and beeswax polish (smugly made myself, a lot of hardwork but smells divine). The multipurpose cleaner is a eco one and is brill everywhere and can use it to water the garden after. MiL has a cupboard under the stairs devoted to cleaning products, our tesco carries less of a range than she's got.

PlentyOfPubgardens · 02/08/2011 09:31

holyShmoley did you mean something like this? ...

Not doing this work is a giant two fingers up to society's expectations of women. Trouble is, it's an extreme form of protest which does us harm - we just end up living in filth, nobody else steps in to pick up the slack and it will always be our fault. It affects our social lives and can have other, more serious, consequences. (me, several pages ago)

Obviously the reasons for hoarding and squalor are a lot more complicated than that but I think for me there is a largely unconscious streak of 'why the hell should I clear up just because I'm a woman and it's expected???', mixed in with the poor self esteem, perfectionism, guilt about wasting things etc.

UsingMainlySpoons · 02/08/2011 11:10

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swallowedAfly · 02/08/2011 11:13

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EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 02/08/2011 11:27

Being enthusiastic about cleaning feels like a dirty secret if you're a feminist. It's part of that 1950s housewife image. I love the smell of clean sheets as you hang them out on a line in the summer. And I have discovered that I am rather good at making cakes. There must be feminists out there who carry guilt because they actually like pink.

snowmama · 02/08/2011 11:29

Been following with interest, as I am a domestic slattern mostly without guilt...despite members of my family wandering around it sighing 'oh Snowmama(.

It is not dirty as I can manage to scrub the kitchen/bathroom regularly and cleaners give house a once a week good clean, but perpetually messy. I think it is the judgement and expected guilt that drives me nuts.

When I lived with men I could hold out for a very long time though, before they realised that cleaning from me was not automatic and they had to come up with a joint plan

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 02/08/2011 11:34

I am also wary because I've seen how quickly you can backslide. My mother grew up in a household that (for it's time) was pretty rare in that cleaning was something done by everyone. Even when they were in their 70s and it was just my grandparents in the house, they polished and swept and hoovered together. My mother married a man who, if she was out and had left a meal plated for him, expected one of his children to warm it and serve it to him. Seriously. Over the years she realised what she had done and has been slowly redressing the balance, but I have no idea why she let it happen. She worked full time and did everything in the home.

holyShmoley · 02/08/2011 12:27

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Lexilicious · 02/08/2011 20:14

I may be behind (have read half the thread) but in terms of a Flylady without the little wifely /godliness shit, I have been reading a book calling Getting Things Done. (There is a website too). It is about people with busy jobs who are stressed and need to break it down to practical steps, but at the beginning he makes it clear that he doesn't distinguish between work and home - your personal project to grow 50% of the vegetables you eat is just as valid as improving the profit margin on your product line for your company.

In my house I am the hoarder and we are both perfectionists. My DH will focus on what needs to be done that is "on the critical path" and (almost) won't do a job if it's not. I look for "concurrent activity", so a relatively good at taking the clean washing basket upstairs when I need to pop up to check on DS, for example. However, we have a Room Of Shame which I feel is my responsibility even though it is equally our problem. Half of it has materials for unfinished decorating projects, and the rest is stuff to Ebay, give back to the Army (I'm leaving the TA at last - took me nine months to get round to sending the letter), or put in the loft (20%). We can't put things in the loft until we get floorboards down, which we can't do while it's the height of summer. So that sort of means that the other 80% just doesn't get done while we wait for this magic autumn sweet spot. It is ridiculous.

I just popped my ebay cherry last week though, so I feel I have made a small step. I am going to press 'post' and go to the Room Of Shame and sort out an eBay box now. If I don't return in an hour, send a search party there's a dear.

CakeandRoses · 02/08/2011 23:54

timewasting you said you're always looking out for money/time-saving toiletries - have you tried the oil cleansing method for your face and the curly girl method for your hair? both mumsnet tried and tested.

TimeWasting · 03/08/2011 00:00

Yes Cake, my hair isn't quite curly enough to go completely shampoo free, but I'm using SLS etc. free products and treating it gently and my hair looks nicer. Buzzing it all off will make it even easier though. Grin
I don't know if I just wasn't doing oil cleaning method properly, but my skin felt either greasy or dry.

VictorGollancz · 03/08/2011 07:55

Consider this the official search party for Lexilicious

TimeWasting · 03/08/2011 07:56

Grin Victor, so it's not just my computer! If you click on the space, the text shows up.

swallowedAfly · 03/08/2011 08:08

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Lexilicious · 03/08/2011 09:38

Here I am! Have now read more of the thread and would like to buy in to the commune please! I like cooking and growing things. I don't mind ironing and have a low 'washing basket threshold'.

Last night I gathered a box for charity of misc things, another for a. SSAFA 'contact house' I just saw an ad for at work (books and toys), and a bag of rubbish which tonight I will separate into recycle, shred and straight bin. Also a box of broken but probably repairable toys and an ebay box of army things that I definitely know aren't issued and would be wanted back. That took an hour but i was still sneezing from the dust for another hour after.

Today I am out of the house in (huge shame coming up) our flat which has been mostly empty the past year since we sold my place and moved into house, and then we failed to declutter and finish decorating this one (DH's single pad). It is focussing the mind now that a letting agent says someone is willing to pay 950ish a month to live here. After fees and stuff we will earn maybe 8000 plus a year. I am mortified that we have foregone this income just by being lazy.