Feminism and housework and hoarding and Flylady...

[solidgoldbrass]

I would love to get some feminist perspective on this because I am struggling at the moment. I have always been a housework avoider, always had a messy house, and I used to say that it was a good way of making sure any man i shagged never got any ideas about me being a little home-maker for him.
It's gradually dawned on me that I actually have a bit of a problem WRT hoarding, and I would like to sort it out, I know some MNers love Flylady but one look at the site made me queasy because it seems so very much 'Women! Embrace housework, it';s your destiny.'
Any thoughts anyone?

What would a feminist book on housework be like?

I don't mean a book analysing who does the housework, but a book of how to maintain a reasonably clean and tidy house - but with no patriarchy. Does this exist? Would it be possible to have a feminist version of something like FlyLady?

I'm totally with you on that last point saf, isolation of housewifery and the insane consumerism of doing everything individually.

I generally get through all the washing as I've hardly got any clothes.
It's not a capsule wardrobe (yet) just that nothing fits (pg) but it certainly motivates me to get the laundry done.

If it's hanging about in washing piles, sorting piles, ironing piles etc. you're not wearing it, so you might as well donate it. Problem solved.

While flylady does also make my teeth itch, it works.

Being a perfectionist I could not believe that I could hoover an entire house in 10 minutes. It always took me hours, and I never found the time, so was always mortified at the filth of our carpets. 10 minutes once a week over the middle of the floors and it always looks good enough.

While I've been doing flylady, I've never noticed my house getting perfectly clean or tidy, e.g. dd ensures there are always sticky hand prints and a trail of chaos around the house, but it doesn't build up anymore, and I can always have people round without the stress of frantic cleaning beforehand.

SAF - if you can afford to use a laundry washing service, do!

If not, just stick on a wash every morning before you put the kettle on (never more than one wash or it is too tedious to put away). Every evening put that load away. If no space to put them away, fill a charity bag. Once it becomes routine it stops taking up headspace and saves time on looking for clothes.

Yes, while I hate FlyLady, it has been useful. I am now more or less on top of the laundry - most days I get a load washed, dried and put away. Occasionally, I don't do any laundry because there isn't any

It does make sense to systematise things and it makes it easier to delegate. It helped me work out which jobs are essential on a daily basis - laundry, cooking, washing up - so I can leave specific tasks for the DC when I'm working. As the background level of chaos has lessened, jobs which need doing are easier to see and everybody has started to pitch in more without being nagged. It's still my job to delegate things though - I'm responsible for making sure the household runs in a workable fashion. I feel a bit ambivalent about that - I sort of resent it but I don't think I could give the role up easily.

But ... I have this horrible image of thousands of women around the world, all shining their sinks, all doing their Kelly's Mission - thousands of women all dusting their bedroom lampshade on the same day ...

but that depends on tumble driers which use loads of energy and so are expensive

in Egypt the clothes would not take long to dry outdoors

sounds like ironing is your problem - do you really need to do it? I find that if I hang clothes out properly and put them away straight away I never need to iron (aside from DH's shirts, but that is really his problem). On the rare occasions that anything of mine does need ironed I do it the night before.

PlentyofPubgardens - isn't that a sort of virtual return to communal working? So many of these flylady followers posting together on sites like this one, sharing anecdotes and ideas. Lots of people feeling less isolated

Oh I wish I could come and swap. I love laundry. I could do it all day (okay possibly not that much). I like sorting the clothes into colours and checking the pockets and choosing which type of washing powder to use and trying out how different powders and fabric softeners go together

And then hanging it out (especially outside) and folding it and ironing it I love as well.

However I did two loads yesterday and left them out overnight because I forgot them and it rained which means I have to do the same ones again which I hate as it seems such a waste of resources! I might just stick them on a spin cycle and dry them again. Laundry is one thing I'm not perfectionist about which does actually help. I could really identify with the alphabetising flour thing. I definitely do that.

I think the feminist guide to housework would denounce the perfectionist thing and give permission to do half a job and also talk about the importance of sharing the responsibility rather than one person having the responsibility and everyone else "helping", and have examples of how this works in real families of all configurations, without any ridiculous "Here's how to train your man" bollocks. Because really, even the youngest child can share some responsibility for maintaining a (mostly) clean and tidy house. If they're old enough to get toys out by themselves then they're old enough to tidy them away to make space for the next game, and things like putting your own plastic plate and cutlery in the sink isn't hard either and makes whoever is washing up's job easier.

I know all the theory, I'm just bad at implementing it.

Sorry i know i'm joining thread v. late, but i HATED flylady for this reason, and then i found 'Ask Tom' or whatever his name is, and imploded.

He's Flylady's little cartoon husband, and the idea is that women can ask him for help with 'men's jobs' and also for help understanding their 'menfolk' better, learning new ways to pander to them understand them

I got an app for my iphone that is much better, it just helps you structure housework, we decide on a couple of 'to-do's every day, and take one each (me and DP that is).

Works for us.

Our family of 5 manages on about 10 mins ironing a week. The school shirts. Some of my shirts or trousers. A few dresses or tunics. Not a lot. They probably do look a bit rumpled compared to some of the smooth sleek well pressed kids, but we're not too bothered. If clothes are clean and dry we consider that good enough.

I sometimes find that the thought of doing housework, that it's there needing to be done is worse then actually doing it.

For me, the way to keep on top of it is to do it regularly. Saturday morning, Dh and DD do the weekly shop and I give the house a quick going over. Then it's done and it looks alright for the week.

The big thing is because it's done every week, it's never that dirty so it doesn't take long to do.

I also stick on some music while I'm doing it, so it feels less like work and it's a good chance to listen to a new album all the way through without being tempted to skip tracks.

SaF - I hear you. I don't mind the washing itself, but putting it away is urrgh. I have to really force myself to do it.

In a way, WhollyGhost, but I think it's a poor substitute for true communal working. I used to live in a commune with no mains services. We used to have big, communal washdays because of the practicalities of collecting and heating water etc. It was stupidly time consuming and back-breaking - totally impractical really - but it never felt a drag because it was a social time. With FL, we're still off in our own little separate spaces and we have to break off what we're doing to come back and share (don't know about anybody else but I find it quite dangerous to pop online when I have stuff to do - I can find myself still sitting here two hours later). It's better than nothing though and at times it has certainly helped me.

Back to the feminist issue, one thing we do quite successfully is all 5 of us (DP, me, 3 dds) all spend half an hour together clearing up the house on a Sat morning say, or an evening. It's amazing how much you can get done with 5 going for it, and it's hard to feel resentful when everyone is doing it.

I try hard to insist on "One toy out one toy in" policies etc, but that does involve a lot of patrolling their playing and I don't always want to do that or have time for it. So instead we try for insisting on everyone clearing up their mess before a meal (that motivates my messy but hungry children). But from a feminist perspective, we need strategies that make a house liveable but without it being mostly the woman doing it.

Sounds good, SAF.

Right, setting my timer and doing 1/2 hour's paperwork.

I'm a feminist with a very clean and tidy house and even have housework routines as it's the only way i can keep everything going now i have children.

for me, it's just about understanding what motivates me (beauty) and realising that seeing mess and dirt (generally not beautiful) makes me feel stressed and uncreative.

Other people's motivations include: comfort; practicality; keeping up with the joneses; hygiene; not showing up their children.

perhaps if you can separate your motivation from your reluctance to adhere to female stereotypes then you'll feel freer to just get on and do it.