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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why do so many people think Ms means divorced?

87 replies

KeepingAwayFromTheJoneses · 14/07/2011 14:20

My mail was delivered to a nosey person in my street by mistake and she is now telling everyone who will listen that I am divorced. I have been Ms for over 20 years and it was in common use before that. So why do so many people think it means I am divorced? What's more, they seem to think it is a compulsory title forced upon divorced women as some sort of badge of shame . What is this about?

I lived in an academic environment before I moved here and never had this problem, but where I live now it is a common belief. They also think they are doing me a favour by calling me Mrs, to save me from the shame of being Ms.

OP posts:

usualsuspect · 14/07/2011 16:18

Do people really think that?

I've never come across anyone who thinks it means you are divorced

It means its none of your buisness if I'm married or not surely

DontCallMePeanut · 14/07/2011 16:18

My dad assumed I'd adopted it because I'm a single parent I have NO idea where he got that idea from...

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 14/07/2011 16:28

I thought people assumed a 'Ms' was a cats bum mouth feminist with hairy pits and knitted sandals and a 'Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle' T-shirt.

I'm a Ms and I certainly hope people think that about me.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 14/07/2011 16:47

I used to be round there, Pendeen, and I called myself Ms at the time (and still do :)).

And the police thinks it means divorced, which is why if you fill in your CRB as Ms, but don't put in a "former name" then they return it to you querying it. Because obviously you've forgotten your previous MARRIAGE AND DIVORCE.

superjobeespecs · 14/07/2011 16:48

i always thought ms was a divorcee term but had it explained to me by a crazy nice lady who says that basically men are mister whether single/divorced/married or widowed, whereas us woman are presumed miss before marriage, mrs whilst married and ms after divorce/being widowed but when the suffragettes were fighting for the vote etc those same woman fought for us to have our own 'mister' title and eventually ms came about so basically - single married widowed divorced - all woman can use the title ms.

she may have been wrong but i stick with this explanation whenever it comes up in conversation :)

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 14/07/2011 16:50

yeah that sounds about right, superjobee. Imagine calling a man Single Davis or Married Kovac and it sounds pretty ridiculous (and unnecessarily TMI) but that's what Miss and Mrs do for women.

superjobeespecs · 14/07/2011 17:03

it really does when its said like that, and us women have had it for centuries! never thought of myself as a feminist but that thoughts annoyed me now..

Colliewollydoodle · 14/07/2011 17:07

I'm a Ms, because I'm married but have kept my maiden (Ha) name. So I can't be Mrs maiden name as that's my mum, and I can't be Miss maiden name as I'm married. Wherever possible I try not to use any title, just my name as thats who I am!

hatwoman · 14/07/2011 17:09

I'm with usual suspect on this. I've never come across this before. I had no idea that some people thought it meant you were divorced. I know there are people who think it means you have particular views (ranging from equal pay to proper feminists can't shave their armpits) but I never knew about the divorce thing. what a sheltered life I lead

WhollyGhost · 14/07/2011 17:14

I was asked for my title yesterday, and said "Ms"

The young man seemed confused "how do you spell that?"

Then he said "but I thought you said you were married, does Ms mean that you are not married but would like to be?"

it made me realise that the use of Ms must be rare in this city, and that it probably marks me out as a feminist

and I am proud to be one, but it does make me wonder what would be the most sensible thing to put on job applications?

OddBoots · 14/07/2011 17:35

I got married very young and was very proud to be a Mrs, I wanted to be married a couple of months earlier so I'd get my A Levels in my married name but dh was having none of it.

I'm still happily married and most places I am still a Mrs but I have started sometimes using Ms because I have seen discussion about it being missing from some forms and I want dd to have the chance to use it. It feels important to get it into common parlance so no-one thinks twice about any woman using it.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 14/07/2011 17:36

I always put Ms, on the grounds that it doesn't give much personal stuff away (good).

at "not married but would like to be". Because obviously a woman's title must say SOMETHING about her marital state or where would we be?

I might start telling people it means something completely different. That I'm a vestal virgin, or that it means I've slept with a man named Dave, or that I only wear black underwear.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 14/07/2011 17:37

yes nice post oddboots - it's right for people to have the choice of using it without a lot of strange and totally unrealted assumptions being made.

SardineQueen · 14/07/2011 18:44

I have only heard this on MN TBH. I used Ms from whenever it was I got my first back account - 14 or 15 or whatever - and it never caused any problems. I'm sure no-one thought I was divorced then

redfoxy · 14/07/2011 19:30

I've never heard that Ms. referred to a divorcee but I can't say I'm surprised.

I have been a Ms. "forever" and I also assumed the default for any woman was Ms. I'm really surprised more women don't use Ms.

I've just started working in a school in a support role and was introduced to the students, the teacher asked "is it Miss, or Mrs.??"

With a cold dry sarcastic cackle and a role of the eyes.. I replied "No, Ms. of course." [hwink]

Where are we when a school teacher doesn't even give the Ms. option. Did feminism actually happen?

floyjoy · 14/07/2011 22:00

I didn't know people thought a Ms. was divorced. I've only ever noticed the sarcastic way some people pronounce it Mzzzz to show their dismissal of it as an title.

VictorGollancz · 14/07/2011 23:03

SardineQueen I got told by a guy in a pub who claimed to work on a bank helpline that those callers who call themselves 'Ms' send a cold shiver of fear down the spines of telephone helpline-ers, due to our demanding ways and our intolerance for errors.

Made me even happier in my decision!

Shallishanti · 14/07/2011 23:10

ooh yes, VG that sounds like me!
don't phone me at teatime and try to sell me something!

and as for CRB....I find it best now to send a covering note-
yes, it's Ms
no,I have never had another surname
yes, I'm married
argh- how long will it be before this simple option of retaining the same name and title through your adult life is understood?

sugartongue · 14/07/2011 23:19

Ms is for women who don't want to be defined by their marital status - I mean wtf is this day and age are we still defined on whether or not we "belong" to our father or husband?!

sugartongue · 14/07/2011 23:26

I agree with Collie though, mostly I prefer just to use my name - I never introduce myself as Ms Tongue, it's always Sugar.

Kladdkaka · 15/07/2011 10:35

I live in Sweden, here titles aren't used. Letters are addressed to K Kaka. They think calling someone Miss, Mrs, Mr etc is weird. Even in school the teachers are Gabriella, Per, Sven. No surnames, no titles.

HeavyHeidi · 15/07/2011 10:41

VG that's probably because we are calling to complain that
they changed our account from "Ms x and Mr z" to Mrs and Mr Z when they learned that we got married, without us asking and with me keeping my name(happened to me), or

that they send all the correspondance for the account on our name to our workplace, addressed to DH (happened to a friend of mine) or

that they decided that only DH should have internet bank access to our joint savings account, and the little woman only needs current account access and that's it. (me again)

Of course they will get a bollocking when I call, but only because they are stuck in 50's. 1850's.

Pendeen · 15/07/2011 10:57

Shame we never met ElephantsAndMiasmas :) where have you moved to?

startail · 15/07/2011 11:16

OK I didn't mean either equal pay or flippant things like bikini car washes. I meant that Ms always brings to mind the sort of feminist who sees discrimination in the sort of thing that I would just see as a bit of fun.
I'm getting a bit old I remember not being allowed to do metal work at school because we were girls and boys not doing cooking. The boys did a sponsored 24hr football and we were expected to make breakfast.
We lost really good women teachers when they got pregnant, no part time job shares
I'd love a little job, I'd love any job, but because I've taken time out of the work place to bring up my own children, it is very difficult.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 15/07/2011 11:18

Victor - that gives me heart about the call centres - being a Ms myself.

I am a married Ms for the same reasons as Elephants - no-one needs to know my marital status. The fact I haven't changed my name to DHs also helps with cold callers "Is that Mrs DH's surname", "No!". Stops the conversation fairly promptly .

I am however the only woman in my group of friends who didn't change their name and uses Ms, which I find very strange in this day and age. When I was younger I thought by now it would be the norm to keep your own surname.

However, my Dad still insists on sending letters/cards to Mr & Mrs DH's initial DH's Surname. Is this a battle worth having I ask myself?

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