The Myths About Women Who "Cry Rape"

[DontCallMePeanut]

From The Telegraph

Sorry, my head's not in the right place to provide any critique of this at the moment, but thought this would interest the members of the feminist section. Will attempt to comment when I have a clearer head.

I read the link, yes. I disagree that woman are conditioned all their lives not to say 'no' because most are capable of doing just that. Men on the other hand, should indeed be told they must get consent to proceed with sex, especially with a new partner. Common sense, and I've made that clear before. It does not always have to be verbal, as some people are/were saying. Hope that's clear. It does not always have to be verbal, every single time, in a ltr or a marriage and not even in a one night stand if the women is giving off obvious non-verbal signs of consent, as some people here are/were saying.

and if certain men lack the 'common sense' (politeness) to ask, what does one do?

Say no thanks unclefest.

now you are just going round in circles, you've argued yourself round in a huge circle. No protection for anyone who isn't as capable as you are of saying no?

Well disagreeing with it isn't the same as it not being true MS.

Women who outright refuse to do things they don't want to, are seen as aggressive bitches. We bend over backwards to be tactful about suggesting things, hedging our language around with "do you mind if...d'you think it's a good idea to... what about... if you don't mind... what d'you think of ..." etc.

And when we're in a situation where to our incredulity and consternation, we realise that this guy we don't want to fuck us, is going to fuck us, we're supposed to throw all that conditioning off and state calmly: "actually I don't want this, please stop now." And expect the bastard to listen to us, not get angry with us, and stop just because we've said so? When he's made it abundantly clear, that he doesn't give a fuck whether we want it or not?

Anyone who comes out with this crap obviously knows nothing whatsoever about what it's like to be raped. Why don't you listen to women who have been MS, rather than telling them what they're capable of doing in that situation?

No, it's not a circle because nobody is answering my questions. I'm tired of repeating them, they are the things in previous posts that end with a question mark.

Give us an example of an "obvious" non verbal consent? How obvious should you be with a one night stand? Where is the clear line for all the stupid people who aren't very empathic and can't read people well at all?

but we have answered your questions - some women do not feel capable of saying no, and things happen to them that shouldn't. And you're ignoring what we tell you because it does not suit the story you are telling.

So if only women would say no, all rapists would stop raping them.

That's brilliant MS - why don't you do a campaign saying to women: "Just say no. Then men will stop raping you".

Because rapists are famous for respecting the word no, aren't they.

And again, why are you so keen on the onus for preventing rape, being with women, not men?

Besides, if you are going to insert your penis into a person, it would be polite to ask first. I mean, you ask before you enter their house. Or their care. Or if you make yourself a drink. You should ask before inserting anything into a person.

that should have been, Or their care.

no, presumably what MS is saying is that we should all say no, and any situation where we have not is therefore not rape. Is that it? Brilliant.

"Women who outright refuse to do things they don't want to, are seen as aggressive bitches."

No they aren't.

"We bend over backwards to be tactful about suggesting things, hedging our language around with "do you mind if...d'you think it's a good idea to... what about... if you don't mind... what d'you think of ..." etc."

Yes I see the members of this website acting like that all the time, lol. And in real life, women are these little shy creatures who wouldn't say boo to a goose. It's an offensive stereotype really HerBeX.

"And expect the bastard to listen to us, not get angry with us, and stop just because we've said so? When he's made it abundantly clear, that he doesn't give a fuck whether we want it or not?"

Inm your example, he's just a guy you decided you didn't want to fuck. How is he suddenly a bastard who doesn't care if you want it or not. If he's not got consent he should make sure. But consetn can be obvious without it being verbal. I keep saying the same thing but some people are determined to miss the point.

Now answer my question HerBex - do you think a man and a woman, even in a ltr or marriage, need to establish verbal consent every single time?

"If he's not got consent he should make sure. But consetn can be obvious without it being verbal."
Circular argumentation. We are telling you that it is NOT always obvious. Not always. Just isn't. Does not matter how you serve it up.

"Give us an example of an "obvious" non verbal consent? How obvious should you be with a one night stand?"

The man escalates. The woman doesn't resist and makes it clear she is happy with the escalation. That's how many women like it, thanks, and it's enough.

Or even more obvious, groans at his kisses, pulls him closer, digs her nails into his back, kisses more passionately, even unzips the man's flies or sticks her hand down his trousers, the list is long. All work fine for most women.

eeuw. It's really not worth discussing this with you. Someone else do this, cos I can't.

How many times do I have to ask for clarification - verbal consent, every single time, even in a ltr? Yes or no?

how about you just lie there, not responding to anything, not kissing back, not touching back, opening legs when opened. Is that graphic enough for you? Because that would presumably be your consent, whereas for me it was me lying there wishing I was somewhere else entirely. Happy now?

"eeuw."

I was asked to give examples of non-verbal consent. Don't be silly.

Why do you keep asking that? Even if there are people who think it would be a good idea, you don't have to adopt their views.

I am not being silly. You are being insensitive. You could easily have made that less grubby. We all know how to do signs of non-verbal consent, surely the problem arises with the grey area about whether lying on your back breathing is non-verbal consent?

"how about you just lie there, not responding to anything, not kissing back, not touching back, opening legs when opened. Is that graphic enough for you? Because that would presumably be your consent, whereas for me it was me lying there wishing I was somewhere else entirely. Happy now?"

Then the man should establish consent. For the forty millionth time, people here said verbal consent was needed every time. This is what I'm disputing.

MarySue, when men say they don't want to have to get verbal consent, what they really mean is that they want to be able to ignore the non-verbal signs, such as the ones that unclefest describes.

Seeking verbal consent should avoid any of the situations where there are "misunderstandings" or "she changed her mind after" and the other common rape myth scenarios. What could be bad about that?

christ almighty. You said earlier that "consent can be obvious without it being verbal."
I am TELLING you about the grey areas. You want to exist in black and whiite, go ahead.