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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 21:29

I can, and I did. Get over it. The more you refer to it, the more we will talk about it, so maybe best to drop it.

As I said before, mistakes and even malpractice in gynecology is not news to me. Here is one of my myriad threads on the trauma that was DD's birth, if you are interested.

Twisted and completely bonkers statements like women are superior to men because X chromosome is better than Y chromosome and smears are there to control women and penetrate them with instruments for no good reason are not about "nature of health care for women and maternity care and so on" at all.

CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 21:31

Re antenatal testing, I would say we are already at the point where you would be considered mad or negligent to refuse free diagnostic tests that might pick up serious problems with your baby.

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 21:33

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 21:36

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CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 21:41

"I have to retain the right to decide for myself free from pressure"

Nobody is saying that you don't. All the hospital is doing is to offer these tests.

" if you wouldn't abort why even have the early tests"

Because they sometimes pick up problems that can be fixed in utero or for which you'd rather be prepared at birth. For example, a friend's baby was diagnosed with a heart problem in one of these antenatal ultrasounds, and a whole team of doctors was present at her birth. Without this team, her baby would not have survived birth.

CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 21:44

"There is a legitimate analysis here about the history, purposes and practices of the medical profession"

Really? I'd like to hear about your legitimate analysis.

Does it involve sinister male-infested gynecology profession conspiring to give unnecessary smear tests to women to control them?

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 21:53

Nobody is claiming that. What is your point?

Have you read my thread I linked to? Does it look like I would ever claim that women don't get ignored in maternity?

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 21:57

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CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 22:05

Given that medical professionals obviously know better, why exactly should they not be able to strongly recommend that you do the tests? If you feel pressured by this, that is I guess unavoidable.

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 22:12

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CoteDAzur · 09/07/2011 22:27

Of course they know better. They have studied for years for this, and you have.......... Google.

It is fine to question and research on your own, but you are deluded if you think your few hours of Googling competes with their years of professional training, and in the case of doctors, rigorous education, testing, and practice.

They are not perfect, but they definitely know better than you. Just like your architect knows better than you about construction, and your dentist knows better than you about your teeth.

LeninGrad · 09/07/2011 22:32

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ZombiePlan · 10/07/2011 00:35

The question is not who has the greater knowledge, but who has the right to have the final say.

MitchiestInge · 10/07/2011 00:42

the greatest mingeologist in the world wouldn't always if ever 'know better' would they? There are lots of different things to know and lots of ways of knowing them

cory · 10/07/2011 01:00

The only time I have felt subjugated by a procedure "down below" was in my first labour when a midwife during the internal squeezed my cervix as hard as she could (hurt far more than any other part of labour) and explained that she was doing this to get me used to the feeling. (fortunately she went off her shift shortly afterwards)

Now I am quite prepared to believe that this woman actually did get off on a sense of power. So can we extrapolate and take it as a proof that women should not be involved in gynaecological procedures?

CoteDAzur · 10/07/2011 06:17

What zombie said.

Humourme · 10/07/2011 06:54

I can't understand why Feminists hold Greer in such high esteem - this was a woman who knowingly slept with John Peel :)

CoteDAzur · 10/07/2011 07:48

Mitch - I said "knows better than you" not "knows best".

Yes, a gynecologist knows this subject better than you, just like an architect knows construction better than you and a dentist knows teeth better than you.

Who in her right mind would claim to know better than a specialist on every subject, and why?

AliceTwirled · 10/07/2011 10:20

Medicine (and architecture and dentistry) are all a reflection of the context they operate. Did they know best when they locked up single mothers and the poor in asylums, performed lobotomies, thought the womb moved round the body, and tested on and withheld treatment to poor, black men without their consent? Of course they thought they did, and the society around them in the main thought all these things were just dandy.

Did the architects and planners know best when they knocked down old housing and replaced with shiny modernist tower blocks? Celebrated then, criticised now.

Challenging medical norms really isn't particularly out there. The discussion of breast/formula reflects the shift from the beliefs that humans had mastered nature and science ruled all, to contemporary challenges to that.

That doesn't meant the OP is right. But to suggest she is wrong on the basis that we can't challenge medical norms as they know best and it's just common sense, ignore the whole political/social context that everyone operates in.

MarySueFTW · 10/07/2011 10:43

Germaine Greer lost her marbles became an unreliable source of opinion over a decade ago when she attacked another woman's choice of 'fuck me' shoes Her recent appearance on Question Time had her telling a father in the audience there was something sexual or flirty about him kissing his daughter goodnight. And as for the book 'The Boy' featuring her slavering over photos of pre-pubescent boys? I don't know how anyone still returns her calls.

exoticfruits · 10/07/2011 10:44

It seems to me to be common sense to have health checks if they are available, prevention is better than cure. However if people don't want to prevent and would rather wait for the cure when things go wrong, that is up to them.

creighton · 10/07/2011 10:57

look for j marion sims on google. it will tell you all about the development of gynaecology.

HHLimbo · 10/07/2011 12:21

It is true that the X chromosome gives more protection from disease than the Y chromosome.

This is because with XX, you have 2 copies of genes to choose from, and a backup if one is faulty. Whereas if you have XY, the Y is 'missing' one of the 'legs' which contains many genes. Therefore you will only have one copy of those genes, and no backup if one is faulty.

With the smear test, I have not looked into the efficacy of smear tests, however the PCTs commisioning healthcare would have a team of analysts ensuring value for money, so I would be surprised if something so expensive but ineffective continued to be funded. Cervical cancer would be harder to spot than cancer on external organs.

However a few nurses doing the tests do seem to be on some kind of power trip! You just have to put your foot down Sakura :) If you don't want someone else poking around down there, make sure you are the one doing it. It is like putting in a tampon/mooncup. If you still feel uncomfortable you can always refuse, but its a good idea to have a check up if you can.

CoteDAzur · 10/07/2011 13:14

"But to suggest OP is wrong on the basis that we can't challenge medical norms as they know best"

Nobody said that. OP is wrong because smear tests are not done to control and subjugate women.

"Dr knows better than you" was something I said to Lenin (not OP) re necessity of antenatal testing.

Re history of medicine - Yes, there was a long period when "doctors" didn't know what they were doing. Bleeding was thought to be a remedy for a variety of problems, mercury was venerated, people were lobotomized for psychiatric problems. However, we learned a lot since then. It is not the dark ages anymore and pretending it is does not help any feminist argument.

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