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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 07/07/2011 07:35

Sakura - re "And in any discussion about gynecology, it's impossible to ignore history of vicious male experimentation on women. This is the backdrop upon which the current system of gynecology is painted. Compulsory check-ups, heinous experimenting etc. All invented and perpetrated by men, naturally. It's a fact that gynecology was invented for dubious reasons."

I'm sorry to say this but you need professional help. You must have had terrible experiences to have reached this point, and I am Sad for you. Please talk to someone qualified to work through those experiences with you and help you find peace.

winnybella · 07/07/2011 08:22

Cervical cancer is not The One To Watch- it's not the only or most common cancer- but it is one that you will realise that you've got it til it's (very often) too late. Therefore if there is a method of diagnosing pre-cancerous cells it is IMO very foolish to not take advantage of it because gynecology has some shameful history. And the fact that it was men taking part in it- well, yes. Does that mean that all or most of male gynecologists are bent on asserting their power over women by inserting metal instruments in them? Do you really think that? I had both male and female doctors treat me in a patronizing way- especially with birth of DS- their gender didn't seem to have anything to do with it.

And I don't see why the history matters so much now. You're back to saying that there's no reason to go to a doctor for a smear. That you can do it yourself. I wasn't aware that your fingers can detect precancerous cells Hmm

Mammograms are not torture devices. Have you ever had one? I had two- they are virtually painless.

Medicine in general has some dodgy history, but now it is a science that can help save lives. If you want to rage against medicalised births, fine. Treatment of women giving birth- often callous, insensitive, patronizing- I agree with you on that. But ranting about male gynecologists is just silly.

winnybella · 07/07/2011 08:23

sorry, it's the one you won't realise you've got it til it's too late

LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 09:52

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TheBossofMe · 07/07/2011 10:09

OK, I'm being really stupid here - how does examining your own cervix help you detect cervical cancer in early stages? What should I be looking for?

I have no breasts left, so no need to worry about those!

LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 10:11

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TrillianAstra · 07/07/2011 10:11

It won't unless you have microscopes and specialised stains and a few years of training in knowing what to look for... (correct me if I'm wrong here...)

I think examining your own cervix is just for familiarity and so it doesn't feel left out :)

TheBossofMe · 07/07/2011 10:12

Oooh - found somewhere that sell plastic disposable speculums online!

LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 10:12

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LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 10:14

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OTheHugeManatee · 07/07/2011 10:23

OP, sorry but you sound bonkers.

Bue · 07/07/2011 10:26

What is this checking your own cervix nonsense? Certainly interesting from a get-to-know-your-body POV, but I think it's downright dangerous to suggest that it could be "a much more effective tool" against cancer than a smear. A cervix is NOT a breast.

And while it's true that the male medical establishment has an awful lot to answer for in terms of past atrocities done to women, what does that have to do with modern practice? Anecdotally, I have been through the gynecological "system" repetitively for a vulval pain condition. The very best, kindest and most compassionate doctor I had was a man. The two worst? Women.

TheBossofMe · 07/07/2011 10:26

Ha ha - loving the idea of my cervix feeling left out!

Am very well, thanks for asking Lenin - happy to be home and with my family, and planning a long future with them once this spot of bother is over!

I actually just had a flashback to lying on the floor of my bathroom at school looking at my genitals, armed with said mirror, flashlight and a photocopy from school. Asked to do it by my Biology teacher, who was insistent that if we left her class able to find our own clitoris and examine our own breasts we would be happy in life! In hindsight, I realise how amazingly progressive, and dare I say it, even feminist my school was, such a shame I didn't recognise it at the time.

Sidge · 07/07/2011 11:24

rainbowtoenails feel free to check your own cervix, I'm all for women being more familiar with their bodies and I'm very pro self breast awareness, and natural family planning. Of course being familiar with your cervical discharge and any irregularities in your cycle, post-coital bleeding etc is vital.

However visualising your own cervix CAN NOT give you any indication of whether you have squamous cell changes that may lead to cervical cancer and to suggest to anyone that manual or visual cervical self-examination is a substitute for a cervical cytology screen is a fool.

TheBossofMe · 07/07/2011 11:32

Cytology - that's the word I've been trying to remember! Yes, absolutely right, even the sites I've found online about self-exam are absolutely unequivocal about the need to have pap smears.

Re self-examination of breasts, and I speak from bitter experience here, but a lot of lumps simply aren't that easily detectable by self or manual examination, but show up on mammograms. So self-exam isn't as good as mammograms, its just that in the absence of a routine mammogram screening programme for younger women, and a low-frequency screening programme for older women, they can form a useful stopgap.

Personally I'll be paying for my DD to have annual mammograms and pap smears if she wants them - no chances being taken with her family history.

swallowedAfly · 07/07/2011 14:59

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LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 15:14

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swallowedAfly · 07/07/2011 15:17

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swallowedAfly · 07/07/2011 15:17

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forkful · 07/07/2011 15:19

swallowedAfly - I get stringy discharge - I don't have to reach up the cervix to find it.

I recommend the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

swallowedAfly · 07/07/2011 15:20

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DilysPrice · 07/07/2011 15:20

OPKs are Ovulation Prediction Kits (or some very similar abbreviation). HTH

forkful · 07/07/2011 15:20

it's just there when I "wipe" IYSWIM (feel the need to clarify based on your last post....)

LeninGrad · 07/07/2011 15:22

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forkful · 07/07/2011 15:22

old edition for £2.10 + P&P on amazon