Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
fuzzpig · 06/07/2011 15:35

I absolutely hate smear tests (or indeed any other gynae examination - pregnancy and birth was a nightmare) - but until they figure out a less invasive way to detect a killer disease I think I'll put up with it thanks Hmm

This might be the craziest OP I've ever read Confused

fuzzpig · 06/07/2011 15:39

I don't really see why men shouldn't be gynae Drs either, TBH.

ItsNotUnusual · 06/07/2011 15:40

If I was succinct, or rude enough to say 'barking' or 'crazy' I wouldn't be politely wondering if there is any way I could unequivocally convince you otherwise itsatiggerday?

NormanTebbit · 06/07/2011 15:40

Sakura - quoting stats like those from Barzil is meaningless. Surely maternal mortality rates are dependent on a whole host of factors not the least of which are the levels of poverty and inequality of access to health screening and care in the US and Brazil.

In Scotland there are concerted health campaigns to get men to attend their GP (They are less likely to than women) to check for testicular and prostate cancer and prevention of heart disease etc. In one area of Glasgow the average life expectancy for a man is 57.

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 15:41

I too am intrigued that vaccinating boys against HPV would increase efficacy. If a mother took her son in to be vaccinated, I wonder if they would give it to him? Yes, the uptake for boys might be low, but is that any reason to not even try? Why not just make the vaccine available for all 12/13 year olds and let people choose whether to get it or not? That wouldn't cost any more.

ShirleyKnot · 06/07/2011 15:45

That stuff about the HPV vaccine is very interesting, and it makes me wonder why the rubella jab hasn't been rolled out to all as well, thinking about it. Hmmm. Couldn't rubella be completely eliminated if everyone was vaccinated against it?

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 15:46

Shirley - everyone is vaccinate against rubella now. It's the 'R' part of MMR.

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 15:47

Rubella is the R in MMR. All children do get this now (or they will if their parents take them along to the routine vaccinations).

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 15:48

Annie it would cost more to vaccinate boys against HPV because you'd need more vaccine, and more Dr/Nurse time. And then there's the ethics of vaccinating someone (with the risk of side-effects) against something that will do no harm to them and is only for the protection of others.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 15:48

I thought now everyone does get vacc'd against rubella - its the R in MMR - and they just double check teenage girls that they're still immune?

GothAnneGeddes · 06/07/2011 15:51

Sakura. To dislike the patriarchy is one thing. To talk of genetic inferiority and using that to shore up your personal hatred is quite another. You know well the evil such discourse has been used to perpetuate and I'm saddened to see it being used in a supposedly progressive space.

And please do not give a "Oh, but I'm talking about men, so it's ok" response.

ShirleyKnot · 06/07/2011 16:03

Duh. Of course. My brain in in the shed.

BitOfFun · 06/07/2011 16:25

There's shifting the Overton window, and there's stretching credulity...but there is still an interesting discussion going on now. I'm not sure that would be happening if this was in AIBU Grin

This thread proves to me that far from being ranty shriekers, the Feminism topic actually comprises many patient, calm and rational posters who are prepared to go the extra mile to try to understand somebody else's world of bizarro point of view.

EldritchCleavage · 06/07/2011 16:34

Agree BoF. And credit to sakura who has taken the scathing posts (including my first) pretty well.

CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 17:03

"Gynecologists used to whip out women's wombs and ovaries on the flimsiest of pretexts, such as depression , or simply because they weren't compliant enough."

And priests used to burn people on the stake for owning a cat, having a few too many moles, or kissing a cat's ass.

What is your point?

CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 17:09

"vaccinating someone (with the risk of side-effects) against something that will do no harm to them "

Actually, HPV causes penile cancer in men, as well as ora/throat cancer and anal cancer in both sexes. So it does make sense to vaccinate men against HPV.

CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 17:13

"really shocked that they had carried out a colp on someone so young"

Why not? Colposcopy is just a fancy name for painting your cervix with vinegar and looking at it.

HerBeX · 06/07/2011 17:40

LOL I love you Sakura.

Not sure I'd go along with the view that cervical smears exist solely in order to subjugate women, but there is certainly a discussion to be had about the constant testing we're urged to go along with and how our bodies are viewed and treated by the medical profession. I think that this isn't just a female issue though, I think the issue of unnecessary vaccination is related.

Viz the HPV, there was a programme on Channel 4 recently which claimed that 50% of young men carry the HPV virus, which isn't jsut about cervical cancer, it's also implicated in oral and anal cancer. I'm not sure if that figure is correct because if it is, it's pretty staggering that half of men (I think the age was under 25, but can't be sure) are walking around with the HPV and no one thinks it's worth having a mass vaccination programme for them.

HerBeX · 06/07/2011 17:43

oops cross posted with cote

this: ""My GP is constantly trying to pressurise me for a smear by witholding other treatment eg I was only allowed to take the contraceptive pill if I agreed to regular smears."

I can only sympathize with your GP who has sadly been reduced to blackmail by your unreasonable attitude to smears.

Would you rather have a GP who didn't care?"

I would rather have a GP who didn't feel entitled to blackmail me. It is a patient's choice whether s/he wants treatment and I find it alarming that some doctors think it's OK to use their gatekeeper position to blackmail any patient, male or female. Dangerous stuff.

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

motherinferior · 06/07/2011 17:47

The recommendation from at least one major cervical cancer specialist, actually (I interviewed her on this a couple of weeks ago) is for boys to be vaccinated using Gardasil - which prevents against genital warts - and girls to be vaccinated using Cervarix, which is showing more protection against cancer. In that way, there'll be a lot less transmission across the range. Including men who have sex with men.

forkful · 06/07/2011 17:50
Mouseface · 06/07/2011 17:50

"painting your cervix with vinegar and looking at it."

Jeff on a bike! That would have to sting like a mofo?!?

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 17:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 18:00

cote it was having a bit cut out of it with a hot wire, so that they could look at it. A biopsy I guess?

Swipe left for the next trending thread