The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

[sakura]

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ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

Gildas! Ha!

I'm just saying that's what I 'know', or was taught at some point - it might not be true that that's why witches have green faces (bruising) or big lumpy noses (fractures) but have assumed this is what everyone knows or believes about it.

for an intelligent perspective on modern-day paganism, you could read "the spiral dance" by starhawk. i haven't read it for a decade or so but it was instrumental in waking me up as a woman. also, although she's pretty controversial and has her own agenda for sure, monica sjoo. she wrote "the great cosmic mother" which is exhaustive and exhausting...would be interested to hear how accurate a portayal anyone knows that to be.

That is true dittany. 'Underinformed' does suggest some knowledge was there in the first place.

So it seems women did have power - they were the 'medicine women', controlled reproduction, and were the 'wise elders'.

dittany, it's not using 'scholarship' at all. If it were, it would not be full of obvious errors.

Interesting, though, that you're fine with feminist scholars as long as they're pig-ignorant.

sorry - pages taking ages to load - there was only 12 posts when i chimed in! apologies if debate has moved on.

Those powers women had were exactly the things christianity wanted to claim and control.

Not just christianity of course - men.

HH - where's the evidence for that? I've never heard women knew how to 'control reproduction' in ancient history except in the context of Lysistrata - and I doubt you want to argue Ancient Greek was wonderfully feminist.

HHAHAHAHHA LDR do you know how babies are made?

Eh? HH what are you on about? Am I missing something?

dittany, Milly and SGM (who actually, er, seem to know about this) have already told you what was wrong about that, too. Have you forgotten or are you still clinging to the 'it's ok to lie for feminism' theory?

Dittany I agree.

Its interesting that the jews and the holocaust are remembered as a source of shame.
But we still have a very negative portrayal of women as witches at halloween.

Shall we all dress up as 'beautiful women the givers of life and health' this halloween? Or rather, on 'all hallows eve, the rememberance of the elders'?

I must admit I've only read the 1st and last pages of this thread as it is very long, but I have to agree with dittany.

When I was much younger I once had a Boss who moaned about the way the Irish Catholics were treated by the Protestant Brits, which I know they were but I turned round and said that's nothing compared to the 2000 years of religious shit that us women have had to put up with - I didn't last long BUT boy it felt good!

Albert Einstein once said, "If the facts don't fit my theory, then the facts are wrong" There seems to be a lot of that about.
Once again, secular courts were responsible for the majority of these killings so by that token, women should never set foot in a courthouse or other government office either.