I'm posting this on here because I hope you'll agree with me

[MarionCole]

DSD lives with us. It's her 15th birthday today and her mother has bought her a Ladyshave for her birthday.

This upsets me. DSD was mortified when she opened it. If DSD decides that she wants to conform to the expectation that she should shave her legs, then surely that is for her to decide in her own time?

Or am I being unreasonable?

(I would never actually post this in AIBU because I suspect most MNers would tell me that I was).

It never crossed my mind that anyone aged 15 would need to shave their genitals so I suppose didn't take "bits" to mean anything other than parts of the body.

Maybe she was "mortified" because she hadn't spoken to her mum about de-fuzzing and simply saw it as a tacit criticism from mum that she was beginning to appear too hirsute generally?

There's male facial hair all over the shop! Check men out on a Sunday and you'll see the "weekend stubble" in abundance with no sense of shame. Yes, there is social conditioning to be clean shaven in an office envronment, but even there you will still see quite a few men with goatees etc. Seriously, for the next week make a point of looking out for them. The reason that you don't see them is because it's all fine and dandy.

Wouldn't it be great if it were socialy acceptable for women to grow their leg hair for charity like guys do in Movember

Sybil - is it really surprising that a child might be mortified by her mum's hair?

I know I was - I was horribly ashamed, because people sniggered at her and I knew perfectly well that for some mysterious reason, hairy women were considered disgusting and laughable. I think that's awful now, but I don't see why a small child would be less likely to pick up on social judgments than anyone else.

Maybe I read that posters point wrong -she hasn't been back to clarify.

My reading of it was the way it was mainly due to this line "She was likely mortified becauseshe was embarrased about every one knowing she has hair!" but her family would know that she has hair on her legs and armpits (or not if she already removes it), as they would see her in her summer clothes, on the beach on holidays, having just got out of the bath or shower with a towel round her and all of that stuff. The way I interpreted it was that it was genitals as why on earth would a girl who lives with her family be mortified for them to find out that she has hair on her legs or armpits when they see those parts of her all the time. It doesn't make sense.

Plus of course "bits" or "girly bits" being a very common term for genitals - see any of the threads on here "what shall I call my daughters genitals" and this suggestion always comes up a lot. In this area it is quite commonly used.

If people understood the post a different way then obviously that's fine! And it is ambiguous. But I don't particularly like being accused of all sorts of things including being "prissy" for what is to me the obvious and logical meaning of the post.

Ladyshaves aren't for shaving legs anyway are they? I thought they were for armpits and pubes TBH.

Thats a really crappy birthday present. It's an essential (if you want to shave) not a gift!

I have the opposite problem with my DSD - her mum won't let her shave even though she's desperate to. Yes, she shouldn't need to at only 13, but frankly I don't give a toss about feminist principles in this instance, all that matters is that my DSD is miserable about it.

Bloody hell though, no way would any of us get her shaving stuff as a birthday/Xmas present! I'd guess it was a misguided attempt at 'celebrating the fact that she's becoming a woman'?

I don't use my ladyshave for pubes! I use it for underarms and legs. I find it too awkward to do my bikini line with, which is the only bit of my "pubes" I ever attack as I have no sexual partner so no-one else ever sees them, (which I would presume is the case for a 15-year-old unless I really am Miss Prim and Prissy!) Bikini line gets waxed at the salon if I'm feeling flush or treated with hair removal cream when I'm skint!

If the dsd in question has already told her mother that she doesn't want a Ladyshave then I would imagine the reason why she was mortified at being given one was very obvious. If it had been me at that age I would have felt that my mother was disregarding what I had told her and was also commenting on how I looked. Both of which are pretty crap.

Mumsnet recently added a pre-teen board. I thought this was great as I have a 12 and a 10 year old and was looking forward to asking other mums how they were managing oncoming puberty. The very first thread, within two posts was about bodily hair removal. It's all very depressing.

MarionCole were you able to reassure your dsd that she is fine just the way she is?

Ladyshave is deffo used for pubes! It says so on the packaging

I read it how I read it, I think how I read it is a reasonable interpretation of what it said. Not sure why so many people have gone bananas about it TBH!

@ Sardine (though I reckon it probably also says on the packaging that it's for legs? ) dunno where the packaging went from mine, I bought it years ago.

Seriously, I think, now you have explained, that it probably is ambiguous and would hazard a guess that it might be a generational thing? (I'm probably at least a decade or more older than you! )

I think I was a bit because I wouldn't have even thought about a 15-year-old having a problem with an overgrown bush. (I'm sure I didn't at that age and I don't think either of my DDs did either, I must ask them)

Weird, you must live on planet loaded because I don't see a ladyshave as an "essential" if you want to shave. Not with bic disposables at 30p a packet!

There is no relationship at all between hair removal and feminism.

Actually, reading the OP again, why, I wonder, does this upset the OP? She uses phrases like "want to conform " and " if she decides" which suggests to me that the OP is personally against de-fuzzing?

IME, and I have two DDs older than 15, girls know very well by 15 whether they want to be hirsute or not.

High ball... wonder if girl in question does want to de-fuzz, feels slightly pressured by step mum not to, talks it over with birth mother who sends Ladyshave for birthday present which girl is mortified to be opening in front of disapproving step mum!

There! Well it's a hypothesis, as good as any other!

frantic you're quite right, ladyshaves are shit. Or they were in my day. Ditto those "epilator things" and hair removal cream.

Crikey, frantic, does that not sting? Hair removal cream is nasty if I leave it on my legs too log, can't imagine putting it near my fanjo. Ouch!

I do think it's really awful how some very boring and/or painful experiences for girls seem to be made into 'special moments' or 'rites of passage' - someone mentioned that maybe the mum sees shaving as a way of becoming a woman. I do find that sad. My mum didn't want me to shave, and still throws razors in the bin if I accidentally leave them in her bathroom when we visit (they're 'dirty' ... though my brothers' razors seem to be fine). Why can't more people just have a normal 'I don't care what you do with your body attitude'?

LRD I only use it for bikini line, to take off the "stragglers" that, since menopause, have started creeping down onto the top of my thighs to wave at folk when I go swimming! It doesn't go anywhere near my actual fanjo I can assure you!

I use the creams specially formulated for bikini line and I haven't had a real problem so far as I tend to do it before bed so I don't have to further irritate the area with knicker elastic for 8 hours or so. I do prefer to have it waxed but funds are not often available. The one and only time I attacked them with a razor I got a horrible rash!

Why does my spell checker object to "knicker" I wonder?

Glad we got that sorted. Still ... I'm not sure I'd be about to emulate you if I were to de-bush.

Is your spellchecker set on American English? Or just a prude? Quick, type willy!

... I worry about myself sometimes ...

willy

No, "willy" is acceptable apparently!

I'm still loving YummyHoney;

"Are feminists hairy, then?"

Tut, must be a sexist spellchecker. O the patriarchy, how it doth oppress us in unexpected ways.

I am mildly curious as to how many feminists on MN are hairy and how many are not.

LRD You could start a thread maybe? I daren't because I'm not a feminist!

lolol here too @ yummy

I'm with Bonsoir on this (almost) - it's perfectly possible to depilate and be a feminist. Pubic hair removal (I mean complete - not just to stop it sticking out of the sides of your hot pants), I do think is a feminist issue. I have mixed feelings about it, basically.

Jenai, would a feminist wear "hot pants"? Are they not an item of clothing designed to make the wearer look sexy?

Depilation is not a bar to being a feminist.

Hair removal is a feminist issue though, legs, pits, genitals, and people are even starting to remove hair on arms now...

frantic - really? How come? (I'm nosy, me.)

I don't want to start a thread in case people think it's a bit rude - and I bet only the people who have strong opinions would reply, which kind of defeats the point.

I used to wear hot pants ... damn I looked good. Not my thing these days though.

sardine - I shaved my arms once because my 17-year-old blond boyfriend teased me they were hairier than his ... what an idiot I was!