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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I'm posting this on here because I hope you'll agree with me

107 replies

MarionCole · 22/05/2011 17:37

DSD lives with us. It's her 15th birthday today and her mother has bought her a Ladyshave for her birthday.

This upsets me. DSD was mortified when she opened it. If DSD decides that she wants to conform to the expectation that she should shave her legs, then surely that is for her to decide in her own time?

Or am I being unreasonable?

(I would never actually post this in AIBU because I suspect most MNers would tell me that I was).

OP posts:
celadon · 22/05/2011 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MarionCole · 22/05/2011 19:07

To be fair celadon, DH has a haircut every year, whether he needs it or not. That's quite a commitment to personal 'grooming'.

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/05/2011 19:23

Poor lass, that's a crappy present, even if both mum and daughter were completely comfortable with the idea that removing women's hair is a standard part of hygiene/grooming. What's she going to get next year, a box of tampax or a face cloth? Sad

YummyHoney · 22/05/2011 19:31

Grin My post did read rather badly, I must admit. No, I don't think women should make any adjustments to their body to get a man.

But do you class shaving your legs/armpits as making an adjustment?

(Glad I gave you all a good laugh, if nothing else Smile)

Bumperlicioso · 22/05/2011 19:32

Hairy? Check
Husband? Check

celadon · 22/05/2011 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AyeRobot · 22/05/2011 19:44

How on earth would shaving in order to "get a man" (ugh) not be an adjustment? The natural position is body hair.

Someone mentioned beards earlier. There are men with facial hair everywhere at the moment. Especially younger men.

scarlettsmummy2 · 22/05/2011 19:48

I can't see anything wrong with it actually, and yes, i would call myself a feminist. I would have loved it if my mum had bought me even a razor when I was fifteen. I remember being mortified at my own mothers hairy armpits!!

MillyR · 22/05/2011 19:49

I am in a sexual relationship with a man and only wax my legs for two months of the year. I only shave my armpits on rare occasions.

In fact, every man I have had sex with has had sex with when I have had hairy legs. It isn't that unusual.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/05/2011 19:51

FWIW, a couple of months ago I was all hairy because I couldn't be arsed shaving, and I went swimming quite a lot so plenty of people saw the pelt in its full glory. I shaved it all off later on.

I've not noticed responses from men being any different - in fact, I did get come-ons from real live male people in my hairy hairy state (maybe they were looking at my face?). Should I take this as a sign they don't make proper men round where I am?

Prolesworth · 22/05/2011 19:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

AyeRobot · 22/05/2011 20:03

I had a discussion about women's body hair in the pub with a mixed group of friends. One of the guys said he is totally neutral on hairy legs or armpits but fairly graphic in his description of the positive effect of a (sorry) "full on 70s bush" on him.

And, yes, I realise that his comments are no less objectifying than if he was saying the opposite.

meditrina · 22/05/2011 20:04

I'm surprised the reaction was as strong as mortification, even if she did think it was a truly crappy present (which would be entirely reasonable). Does her mother have a track record of gopping presents?

I would expect a 15 year old to know about depilation and to have made her mind up about it. I would be a bit disappointed if one crappy present precipitated a rethink - are you worried she will be easily swayed?

(And I'm another who saw "bits" in the context of first response simply as a synonym for "parts of the body" - have to say I am a bit Shock that it has a different meaning on this part of MN).

aliceliddell · 22/05/2011 20:05

Everybody hates us - we don't care!

aliceliddell · 22/05/2011 20:07

that last post was re prolesworth's millbank

AyeRobot · 22/05/2011 20:07

I should just add, the discussion was about body hair in general following on from a comment about back, sack and crack waxes.

"Bits" is a common reference to genitalia, isn't it? Maybe it's a regional thing.

mrsravelstein · 22/05/2011 20:09

"do you think it is perfectly right that women should have to make all these adjustments to the body they were given in order to 'get' a man"

they don't have to, as has been extremely well demonstrated on this thread, any more than they have to have long hair, or big tits, or wear a pink mini skirt or anything else that might be considered feminine by some men.

this is demonstrably a total non issue: some men don't mind hairy women, some men actively like hairy women, some men are turned off by it. just like any other physical aspect.

meditrina · 22/05/2011 20:13

AyeRobot: I know it can be - I was surprised more that this part of MN sees first what I think of as a slightly prissy euphemistic use. Especially as it made more sense in its normal meaning in that context.

SybilBeddows · 22/05/2011 20:19

'I remember being mortified at my own mothers hairy armpits!!'

I cannot even imagine how that would work. What on earth happened to you to give you such a conflicted relationship with the normal female body?

AyeRobot · 22/05/2011 20:21

I did take it as legs and pits, meditrina, but I can see why it could have been read otherwise. It wasn't "this part of MN", it was a couple of posters. We aren't a homogeneous mass, despite popular opinion Grin.

Original poster
MarionCole · 22/05/2011 20:22

meditrina - I'm not in the slightest concerned about her "being swayed", she can do as she pleases. That is precisely the point, I want it to be up to her and not feel pressured into thinking she should follow a particular path. As I said before, she has the opportunity and means to buy her own depilation products if she wants.

OP posts:
meditrina · 22/05/2011 20:36

AyeRobot: I suppose I was reacting to the speed and insistence of the genitalia interpretation.

MarionCole: if you're not concerned about her being swayed, then the present won't be swaying her, and presumably she'll be continuing to make up her mind. That's all to the good of course, but it has left me a little mystified as to why her reaction was as strong as mortification (though I do realise there are possibilities about which you might not want to post).

Gandalfthedyed · 22/05/2011 20:45

Men are conditioned to shave pretty much too, though.
Most men are clean shaven as that's what is expected or acceptable. Some aren't and that's cool too.
No different from women.
I shave when I can be bothered or when the hairs start poking through my tights. I do shave my pits though.

scarlettsmummy2 · 22/05/2011 20:55

lol, nothing. I just didn't like going swimming with my mum and knowing everyone could see her hairy armpits. My brother didn't like it either. I remember just desperately wanting my mother to be the same as everyone elses. I still shave under my arms every day. Maybe I should see a counsellor........

No in all seriousness I think I have just always liked the idea of a glamorous mother, my favourite programme when I was a small girl was dynasty and then when I was a little older I loved baywatch. I just used to think the women looked fabulous. I have no idea where that came from as my my upbringing was very normal, my mum as mentioned worked full time in a demanding job, didn't shave, didn't wear a wedding ring and really didn't give a toss what she looked like. She also didn't allow me trendy clothes- I remember begging her to take me to tammy girl, and i wasn't allowed make up until I was seventeen so maybe it stems from that- just because it was so different from what my own life was like.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 22/05/2011 20:58

I am utterly astounded at how obsessed my nieces and younger friends are with hair removal.

I am not very hairy and I do shave legs/armpits. I am not too fussed though.

When my DN was prg her and her friends were discussing when to schedule the bikini wax in time for labour Shock.

I thought we spent years trying to get away from that shaving before birth nonsense!

Anyway - back to the point. From a feminist pov YANBU. From a pragmatic pov, its a rubbish present for anyone.

While we are (sort of) on the subject - anyone notice how Dove crows about using 'real women' in their advertising and then tries to sell us deodarant on the basis it makes our armpits more soft, kissable and attractive?

attractive armpits? One more body part for girls to fret about ffs.

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