I regret not giving my DCs unisex names

[darleneoconnor]

do other feminists?

After reading some stuff on how exam markers/recruiters discriminate based on perceived gender I feel like I've let my DC down.

DD does have a kind of strong sounding name but it's no Morgan.

Yes, that's exactly what we all think. Men are shit.

How perceptive of you.

I was talking about the UK,Nooka!
Find me one single thread on MN started by someone disappointed to have a girl and I might believe you. I am prepared to trawl through and find you lots started by someone who is desperate to have a girl. (There will be defence for having a boy-I for one always say that boys are lovely and a healthy DC is all that matters and that if a girl is all important you could adopt an older girl and not risk it having aboy).
I agree with you Dilligaf81-I generally keep off and must do in future.

I was none of those things as a child. Luckily, I have parents who weren't rigid in their gender expectations of their children

My parents were the same AyeRobot and my treatment and the expectations for me were no different from my brothers, but then my mother and grandmother were very strong women and it wouldn't have occurred to them that you would. The only difference is that I was probably all the things mentioned-but that is my choice-which is the difference.

I think that worrying about names on exam papers is minor compared to the overwhelmingly depressing view on MN that girls are preferable because they are pretty, clean, quiet,biddable, will like shopping and be mum's best friend for life-whereas boys are alien -they are boisterous, rude,very physical, not very biddable, you can't do much with their hair and clothes, they are no good as a shopping companion and you will lose them as soon as they get a partner.

That is the real stereotyping and that is what I find very depressing. I have a friend who thinks that I can't be properly fulfilled because I will never know the mother/daughter bond, Very strange as her DD is now married with DCs of her own. She has a fairly strained relationship with her, she was never pretty, willing to be dressed in pretty dresses,she was out getting dirty and into physical exercise, wouldn't be seen dead shopping with her mother and didn't have the expected 'womanly' bond when she had her own DCs. I have a much better relationship with my DSs-and yet she still feels sorry for me!

Why are they seen in such stereotypical ways? Why are people not just thrilled to have a baby?

exotic - If life is too short what on earth are you doing analysing the situation in terms of your boys (and more to the point what are you doing on the feminist boards if you don't want to look at life through a feminist lens)?

I haven't personally seen threads where someone goes on about how it took them days to get over having a boy but I am happy to assume they happen and that threads of women being upset at having girls do not. But I think you are missing the fact that you are on a site that is overwhelmingly female. It would be harder for a woman here to talk about how she didn't want a girl (because that would be rejecting her audience) and in a gendered society people are more likely to expect a closer relationship with a child of their own gender. If men posted in the same way on a male board you would probably see more posts about how they really wanted a boy so they could play footie etc.

I feel sorry for children born into those sorts of set expectations. A lot of this thread has been exactly about how expectations based on sex mold our children and how wrong that is. The OP was that unisex names might allow children to escape some of that. Posters on the feminist board don't generally expect that pressure to come from themselves, but all those other individuals with those expectations for their girls and boys, egged on by a commercial world that thrives on segmented markets, provide a culture that encourages our children into narrower sets of actions.

I haven't read any threads about people being disappointed to have either girls or boys - I wouldn't click on a thread like that though.

However, regardless of whether these threads exist or not, MN is a predominantly female site and therefore not representative of the population as a whole. I think there is a chance that some women are more likely (in this society) to want to have female children because they are female themselves and relate to females. The opposite goes for some men.

As has been pointed out, it is girls who are being aborted and killed their millions. This does happen in the UK too although of course much higher numbers of girls are disposed of in India and China.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7123753.stm

exoticfruits, your rant about gender expectations is preaching to the converted, you do realise that, don't you? I'm sure that on the threads you describe, you will find plenty of posters who also post on this board.

The only difference is that many on here don't see gender stereotypical traits as natural, but as socially conditioned. Which, I concede, is a major difference and I suspect never the twain shall meet on that one.

I thought I was a feminist until a found this feminist board! Obviously not. I find it utterly depressing and will do better hiding it.
I fully expect that men would want a boy to play footie. I just get sad by the fact that with girls, clothes, shopping,a biddable child come first -or appear to on the threads I read. I have yet to see a woman want a DD to share a passion in Scuba diving etc
I was brought up to think that girls could do anything-and so was my mother- that we didn't have to whinge on about unisex names. It is a sad world if you have to have a male name to get on and can't get to the top being called Rosalind or Rosie because the examiner or interviewer will favour Richard!

I will leave you all to it. But women won't be equal until they let the trivail go and concentrate on the main points. You would never get a man saying,'I did badly because I was called Wayne and I would have done better as William'.

I am not talking aboutIndia and China-high dowry expectations would put people off girls in UK!

You dismiss this whole section, and indeed reject feminism, based on one thread?

Blimey.

I reject this thread, and it puts me off reading others. I remain a feminist.

It is a sad world if you have to have a male name to get on and can't get to the top being called Rosalind or Rosie because the examiner or interviewer will favour Richard!

Well yes!

But since women aren't getting to the top in the same sorts of numbers as men why is discussion what could be done to make a more even playing field whinging?

The link was about 1500 girl children thought to be missing from the UK birth statistics although the parents are of Indian origin.

iI have a DD and a DS. Surely being a parent should be about wanting to give your DC inner self worth - the confidence to take on the world. Giving a girl a boy's name (or gender purged name) tells her girls aren't good enough. Unless you're going to tell her it was only Mum's idea and Dad wasn't consulted! Then if you have a DS will you tell him only Dad chose?!

Can I be quite clear, UK women of Indian origin, do not want girls-even to look pretty and go shopping with. I am not talking about India and China-even if they happen to have been born in UK.
I would have thought telling a girl she was called Rowan so that people don't know she is a woman is giving her the message that it is better to be a man. (Nothing wrong in Rowan because you like it-I know a girl called Rowan for that reason)

I just thought it was relevant to the part of this discussion which is about people expressing a preference for one sex or the other.

Sort of puts things in perspective.

One thing I've noticed, and I've seen written about, is that once a name becomes unisex, it actually becomes a girls' name. Nobody will call a boy by a name that could cause him to be mistaken for a girl! So Dr Williams may be of the last generation of male Rowans.

Think of Evelyn or Leslie.

Where are the female Lesleys? The only one that I know is 55yrs old. Rowan has never been fashionable for boys and girls. Any class with have an Alex or Sam (boys)It is all to do with fashion. I don't think there were ever many male Evelyns or Hilarys-they seem a bit wet like Clarence, Percy or Cuthbert-they may come back one day.

I know a 20something female Lesley. Never known any RL male ones.

Only Sam I've known was female, only Alex, male.

There was a male Lindsay at school.

I know a handful of Lesleys, all 40s/50s. (Male name should be spelt Leslie - I don't know any)(well there was Les Battersby...)

Know several young Sams & Alexes of both sexes

But then: Kim, Adrian, Ashley, Lindsay? Shirley and Hilary crossed over long ago, of course.

I found this American site that definitely has a few entries saying "Becoming more common for girls, less so for boys":
www.babynamesetc.com/art15.htm

The writer is trying to steal Julian for girls: "Julian: only popular for boys...I really like this name as a girl name too."

Then again, feminists will know about Julian of Norwich.

I don't think unisex names give some women any more freedom than other women. Obviously, promotions and employment are done through in-person interviews. I have a unisex name and it's never done anything for me. Since being feminine is a trait misogynist employers look for in a female employee; I've had my name remarked upon by these, I would say it hurts my chances of a job.

sorted the handwriting thing by passing on ehlers danlos, not so much the name though.

Everything about a system that was designed for boys because girls were not admitted somehow magically advantages girls? Cool story.

The original post and discussion also seems to date from 2011, which is a bit strange, but hey ho.