Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I regret not giving my DCs unisex names

203 replies

darleneoconnor · 20/05/2011 23:06

do other feminists?

After reading some stuff on how exam markers/recruiters discriminate based on perceived gender I feel like I've let my DC down.

DD does have a kind of strong sounding name but it's no Morgan.

OP posts:
TrillianAstra · 21/05/2011 09:45

Saying hat the curriculum is "more suited to girls" suggests that there are intrinsic differences between girls and boys in terms of what they are interested in and how they learn.

There is no evidence for this.

It may simply be that we socialise little girls to be better at things that then help with their exam performance (sitting still and being quiet being a good start).

Lotkinsgonecurly · 21/05/2011 09:50

How about:

Jo
Chris
Sam
Andy

All names could be shortened from pretty girls names if she decided to like the longer names offering choice?

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 21/05/2011 09:52

boys still outperform girls at university level

I dont know about other unis but IME coursework, certainly wasn't blind marked.

I did once fill in a job application which had a seperate section for name and address so the selection panel didn't know the gender. I think ALL job applications should be like this.

OP posts:
Nospringflower · 21/05/2011 09:54

I work in the NHS and all our job applications are anonymised. Also at the University we are involved with and my partners work. I think thats fairly standard in Uni's now and govt offices. Age related info is also taken out in job applications e.g. year of going to school/uni etc

CogitoErgoSometimes · 21/05/2011 09:55

I just worry about a mother who, like the OP, seems to have decided at quite an early age that if ever her DD does badly in an exam it is going to be because of undue prejudice caused by her name.... and therefore take the blame on themselves for not choosing a different name and - more importantly - not seek any other reason for poor performance. If you effectively write off your own children because of their name, gender, skin-colour, religion, socio-economic group or anything else purely on the basis of 'something you've read' then I think that smacks of defeatism. Far better to imbue your children with a 'can do' attitude and high personal standards so that they can override any minor drawbacks caused by things they have zero control over.

Grumpla · 21/05/2011 10:09

Um, I think you're reading quite a lot into what the OP wrote to come up with that... Hmm

I think that being aware that your child may experience unfair, discriminatory behavior for whatever reason (gender, class, sexuality etc) often results in parents being even more determined to give their kids the tools they need to overcome that prejudice, not an excuse to renounce all responsibility for it!

In the context of the very compelling evidence set out in DoG and many other feminist studies, some parents might feel that a unisex name could be helpful but I am certainly not suggesting that it would be a magic solution to the problem!

ajandjjmum · 21/05/2011 10:14

My name was quite unusual when I was growing up - although it's much more popular now. It was also a well known male name, and I rather liked that. So when choosing for DD, we chose a number of names that could be unisex - Pip, Robyn and Alexandra - so I now have an Alex and people are always referring to him!! Grin

exoticfruits · 21/05/2011 10:23

Saying hat the curriculum is "more suited to girls" suggests that there are intrinsic differences between girls and boys in terms of what they are interested in and how they learn.

There is no evidence for this.

I thought there was a lot of evidence Confused

Do women not mark exams? Might they not be influenced by a girl?

The answer seems to be to hide the name rather than change it.

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 21/05/2011 10:24

cogito- do you realise you have wandered into the feminist section?

you are soooo missing the point

OP posts:
Original poster
darleneoconnor · 21/05/2011 10:28

aj- I'm considering Alexandra for next time!

There is also evidence that girls with gender neutral names become less 'girly girls' when they grow up and are more represented in male dominated fields like STEM than girls with feminine names.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 21/05/2011 10:31

I think that cogito had a sensible post-are we all supposed to think one thing if we post on the feminist section? Confused

I would bet that more women mark exams than men-so I really don't see how it follows that boys are marked up.

You can tell the difference in some subjects. Recently I looked at stories by yr one DCs with no name. In every case it was easy to guess whether it was written by a girl or a boy. (feminists might not like it-but I was right in every case)

Grumpla · 21/05/2011 10:31

exoticfruits I really would recommend that you read 'Delusions of Gender' in that case. It talks a lot about how a lot of the evidence that is widely reported about gender difference is actually total bullshit quite tenuous. It's an interesting book and you don't have to be a neuroscientist yourself to understand it - reminded me if reading 'freakonomics' (I'm not an economist either!)

exoticfruits · 21/05/2011 10:34

I live with 4 men Grumpla-I know they are different! I am constantly having to explain to them that I am not 'weird' in my thinking!

exoticfruits · 21/05/2011 10:41

I really wish that I had those stories-any one of you could have put a gender on them-it stood out a mile.
It was an ordinary class-cross section of homes.
Only the teacher knew the gender, we were moderating her marking and it was important not to be influence by name. I was the one who mentioned it must be a boy etc, so when we had finished we looked to see if we were correct. We were in every case.

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 21/05/2011 10:50

bit it you are saying they are different because of biology rather than socialisation then you really need to read DoG.

The handwriting thing is an argument for typed assignments in school.

OP posts:
zubin · 21/05/2011 10:54

But surely as girls outperform boys at school and, despite what was said earlier, research shows now at university level too - it is not a feminist issue at all and in fact if anybody is being discriminated against based on their name or handwriting it's the boys?

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 21/05/2011 11:05

boys still get more 1sts than girls

could all non-believers please go and read DoG?

OP posts:
TheBride · 21/05/2011 11:09

Don't they also get more thirds/fails?

TheBride · 21/05/2011 11:11

Sorry- hit "post" too soon.

The argument is that girls tend to "play safer" in exams than boys; a risk taker is more likely to get a 1st or a 3rd, whereas playing safe gets you a solid 2:1.

Now why this is is a whole other argument over gender conditioning, but it is a different argument than biased marking

At my university all exams were marked blind and the bias was still there (no coursework element on my course).

chubsasaurus · 21/05/2011 11:12

My full name is obviously quite girly and shortened name is unisex. I despise it shortened for that reason. Perhaps your DCs don't want names that are gender neutral.

zubin · 21/05/2011 11:13

Boys get more firsts by something like .9% and because the numbers of girls gaining places at university is significantly higher (including a significant difference in places gained at Russel group universities) the numbers obtaining firsts is actually higher than boys.

samstown · 21/05/2011 11:15

Jesus, there is a lot of crap spouted on this board (as well as a lot of stuff that I do actually agree with actually) but this has to be one of the most ridiculous!
And btw, names like Alex, Sam, Chris as shortened versions are no good because dont you have to put your full name on an exam paper (Alexandra, Samantha etc?).
And also, when I was doing my university exams, my name was written on a part of the paper that you then had to lick and fold over like and envelope so that your name could not be seen.
Totally agree with the poster who said about writing off your children just because they are a girl from the start - 'there, there dear, it wasnt because you didnt revise for your exams that you did crap in them, it was because those nasty men saw your girly name and automatically marked you down for it'...
What about women exam markers?

samstown · 21/05/2011 11:16

ooops said 'actually' a lot in that last post!

MumblingRagDoll · 21/05/2011 11:22

My name is unisex and the industry which I'm in is predominently male....I do think it has helped.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 21/05/2011 13:39

@darleneoconnor... I realise where I am. But to hear a grown woman start a thread saying that she'd 'let her daughter down' by giving her an overtly female name doesn't really sound all that feminist to me. Why not go the whole hog and regret the fact that she's female?