Ok then - what's the absolute best way to respond to physical/verbal sexual harrassment?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

...Apart from with the Feminist Cavalry obviously.

Last week I had one man feel me up at a work event, and another make very loud comments to me about my breasts in the pub. I had never met either of these men before, but they were surrounded by their/our friends and presumably felt sure that no serious consequences would result of their behaviour to me (like, say, friends dumping them).

BOTH times I was told afterwards by other women who'd been there that the men had done the same or worse to them in the past.

So what I want to know is, what should we do, when faced with this twattish behaviour? I want something that will show the perpetrator that it's not ok, and discourage them from trying it on me or anyone else again.

Thoughts/ideas?

Because shutting up and being polite about it isn't working for me any more.

If I was groped, I would state in a VERY loud voice that he had just sexually assaulted me and is very lucky that I wasn't calling the police to press charges. The other I would state the above but use sexual harrassment instead. Then you could watch them want the ground to open up and swallow them.

Actually, as it's a work event, do these men work for the same company? If so, report them for both incidents.

One works for the same organisation, the other doesn't.

I thought I would be the one to shout and make a fuss next time, I really did. But when it came to it I didn't.

What I actually did was inform several other colleagues (first man), and tell him to get over perfectly normal human anatomy (the second one) but it wasn't enough.

I'm not sure I can reprogramme myself to make a loud fuss about this. Should I?

Absolutely, because as long as people stay quiet about this behaviour, it stays unchallenged and it's absolutely, unequivocally wrong. Definitely raise a grievance with regard to the first man.

Oh I think you should, Elephants, if you can.
Depending on if you feel safe/willing to take on any potential repercussions, (eg "no sense of humour, Just having a larf" bollocks) I've found "STOP DOING X NOW" in a big, but low pitched voice, to be remarkably effective.
"STOP MAKING REMARKS ABOUT MY BREASTS NOW."
or "STOP TOUCHING MY ARSE RIGHT NOW." and if you get a "oh, cheer up, only joking" response just keep calm and carry on along the lines of "I do not want to you to x. You may not do x. Stop doing x." and then turn to someone else and start another conversation while the abuser looks embarrassed and everyone stares at them.

I always think of Pratchett's Death's voice when I try to imagine how it should sound.

Awful for you, I'm enraged on your behalf.

It is difficult to shake off the programming, but I agree with calm, loud, simple comment - ask what they are doing and why. Look them dead in the eye, do not apologise, elaborate or explain (it is up to them to do that ).

Thank you for the ideas. You are all fab :)

Dittany - I know, I keep wondering what these guys are like when they get a woman on their own, if that's how they behave when in a supposedly safe place (brightly lit, surrounded by others etc).

Blackcurrants, I LOVE the idea of channelling the Death voice. I'm sure I can remember to do that. What with that, and snowmama's waiting for them to explain themselves, it sounds quite terrifying which is what I want.

You know, gropey man's boss is a lawyer.

Groping counts as assault so you are permitted reasonable force to get out of the situation. Fingers are vulnerable even on the strongest person so grabbing one and yanking it back gets you a lot of control of the hand immediately. A sharp elbow could also be employed to great effect.

As dittany says though, you do have to be careful that you don't then escalate the confrontation and get in a much nastier situation as a result. At a work event, this is less likely though as there are plenty of witnesses.

Ask a question loudly but calmly, "why do you think it is ok to grope me? Do you understand that it is sexual assult?" "why do you think it is ok to talk about my breasts that way? Do you just see women as objects" puts the onus on them to explain their behaviour and is embarrassing for them. I have used this strategy to good effect in the past but as Dittany says, only when it's safe. I would definitely report the arsehole too.

Start a serious discussion about their dicks. Ask them if they shave their pubic hair, have they ever considered circumcision, and what size condom do they use. How their trousers are not so flattering to their manhood, as it looks really like there is very little there, and have they considered penile enlargements?

I'm meeting my friend later, who's had trouble from the same man at work, and will have a chat with her about what to do now. Was INFURIATED with myself yesterday because I bumped into him and was really polite. He looked embarrassed so clearly knows what he did.

I honestly wouldn't know who to complain to, there's no HR department that I know of.

That's really good that your workplace changed, bedlam, gives us all hope.

You complain to his boss.

I think next time I see him I am going to tell him that if he ever does that to me again, or I hear of him doing it to another woman, I am going to email his boss.

It's sad that I heartily doubt that his boss would do anything about it.

OP, that is awful. What a cowardly little person, who could physically do that and then look embarrassed one on one. The mind boggles.

QuintessentialPains, I love your post, that is brilliant and I for one certainly have the mouth on me to try that.

I the past I have tipped a pint over someone who was told not to touch my arse. I have also threatened to break someone's fingers (hand hovvering whilst they talked to me).

The "Why?" thing is good too as Dittany says. Works in lots of situations and allows the perpetrator to embarrass themselves further.

Before my breast reduction, I would catch anyones eye who was staring at my chest and give them a hard stare if I was in the mood for it. They could never hold my gaze.

Learn how to fight, i would have punched the guy if he felt me up!

I know physical violence is not great, but if a man acts like an animal smash him in the face.

But make sure you know how to do it.

What if you kept a notebook in your bag, and made a big point of noting down every incident when it happened - either as well as, or instead of channelling the Death voice and challenging the perpetrator. If asked what you are doing, you could calmly say 'Amassing evidence for a sexual harassment case against you.'

I hope that you can get this sorted out - such behaviour is abhorrent.

Ahaha brilliant idea SDTG!! I will definitely do that. I am actually going to buy a notebook now.

I wanted to start this thread not just for myself but to amass ideas for other people who are fed up with this. These men just can't be allowed to carry on unchallenged.

QP - I just don't think I've got the stomach to contemplate the idea of their dicks! Plus they might like it...

I would love to learn how to fight. Where can I go to do that?

Elephants: it's not bar-fighting, but Aikido is the "defensive'' and ''throwing'' martial art, which is all about escaping holds and grips, and blocking punches and kicks. I can have a man (or anyone, of any size) who tries to grab my arm, collar, or shoulder, on the floor in about five seconds. It's not about muscle, it's about balance

I'm a beginner, and haven't been for a bout a year (baby) but it's ACE. Can you tell I'm excited to go back? :)

Ahh, is something everyone should know. The way the Uke (practice partner) is falling to the ground is NOT fake, if you don't flop down you'll break your arm. It's a great move.
Sorry for that minor hijack, there.

"I know physical violence is not great, but if a man acts like an animal smash him in the face" - I would add caution that would probably get you in legal hotwater. Reasonable force is just enough to get you out of the bad situation. If he showed other threatening signs and you were on your own with him rather than in a big group of people then you would be more justified to take more strident action.

I can also recommend Krav Maga if you're looking for something very practical that can be learned quickly - it was developed to get soldier recruits up to speed with techniques in the shortest space of time possible. It's totally geared around realistic scenarios and getting the right mental framework and making the most of your natural reflexes. I've also learned a lot about situational awareness, legal aspects and non-violent ways of disarming a confrontation - it's not all fight all of the time.

I love the notebook idea, will have to remember that. Last time this happened to me, I just said very loudly "Please take your hand off my arse, it's not public property." My normal standby is "What the fuck are you doing?"

Oddly (or perhaps not oddly) I do find it much easier to say something if I've drunk a bit - brings out my natural stridency!

I like the idea of knowing more self-defence moves, too. I do remember doing self-defence at school but I don't remember many of the moves now.

a few years ago i moved into a block of flats with a security guard in them
this bastard just wouldnt leave me aloneand it got to the point where i was scared to go home at night-i rushed in before he started work.
telling him to fuck off didnt work-
i did think of reporting him but i thought it would be my word against his!
in the end i cheerfully walked through the door one day and when he asked me why was i so happy i replied"my husband is about to get out of prison-hes done 6 years for gbh"
his face dropped and he never bothered me again!
i felt pissed off about resorting to a fictacious man to save me but i believe it did save me.
its suprising the amount of men that scarper when they think theres a [male]nutter round the corner.!!