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Original poster

Feminist analysis of the royal wedding

593 replies

DontdoitKatie · 29/04/2011 11:08

This is one of the times when you realise how very lonely seeing things through a feminist lens can make you.

Patriarchy in all its glory.

OP posts:
madwomanintheattic · 02/05/2011 20:49

although do you remember their wedding? Shock

mathanxiety · 02/05/2011 20:52

Gobsmacked at the archaic language and the Who gives this woman? thing of the service. I haven't been to a CofE wedding and didn't pay much attention to any I've seen on TV before/ had bad reception. Is this typical?

LuckyWeKeptTheCot · 02/05/2011 20:52

Thanks Meditrina! I am a bit obsessed with language and the interpretation of widely accepted meanings and what other ideas can be brought to them. Luckily the vicar - who is lovely bloke and a classical scholar is into that too - not just when it comes to religion - after all I'm not even baptised and he found writing (about my faith) 'To be confirmed' most amusing - clergy humour. You have given me a better means of expression - by using the word obey I was broadening the narrowed meaning - which is still perfectly acceptable in most dictionaries. Other people have their own way of doing it - that was part of mine. But often feel a 'feminist interpretation' is interesting in narrowing things to suit an argument. Not always but have felt that here.

meditrina · 02/05/2011 20:55

Most of the thread isn't an analysis of the Royal wedding though. It's dominated by considerations of marriage which pertain to all traditional ceremonies, royal or not. So it's not surprising that examples from other marriages come into it.

KatieMiddleton · 02/05/2011 20:57

'...do me a favour "A feminist analysis of the Royal Wedding"!!! This thread is just another chance to talk about the thing dressed up as a serious discussion. Quite delusional.'

Sorry but I don't understand that. What are you trying to say? That we are not discussing this from a feminist viewpoint? That there is nothing to discuss from a feminist perspective? Or perhaps that none of us exist and we are really not discussing anything at all?

What's you're angle because I'm lost Confused

LuckyWeKeptTheCot · 02/05/2011 20:57

ChristinedeP - oh yes - I'm not bothered by your impatience and still think the idea of a Feminist Analysis of the Royal Wedding is a joke. But if you can't see how you are deluding yourself I guess feminists aren't what they were. Also, anyone who posts is 'getting involved in the discussion'. Sorry but it's true. In the end it must be a discussion about weddings in general - total waste time to discuss a one-off.

LuckyWeKeptTheCot · 02/05/2011 20:59

As Meditrina said - what's the point of discussing one wedding - how can you really make any worthwhile point? That's why calling it an 'analysis' rather than just a 'gossip' under a pseudo-serious name is laughable.

brandnewme · 02/05/2011 21:00

'Obey' wasn;t in our wedding vows and that was 11 years ago and a CofE service so not sure why there was a big fuss about Will and Kate not having it in theirs Hmm

Have to laugh at the comment pages up about women doing the hard work of childbearing....thats not a choice ...it's nature!!! My dh runs 2 companies and I choose to be a SAHM and look after our 3 kids while he works. In all honesty i can't say who has the toughest job as both are sooooo different and bring different stresses.....again nothing to do with men v women but what we have agreed works best for our family

dittany · 02/05/2011 21:02

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ChristinedePizan · 02/05/2011 21:04

I think most people leave 'obey' out of vows nowadays don't they? It seems a tad antediluvian. Whatever the other interpretations of the word might be, if your guests hear you say the word obey, it's probably a fair bet that they are hearing it as being obedient as that's what's generally meant by the word.

KatieMiddleton · 02/05/2011 21:08

My grandmother didn't have obey in her vows and that was in the early 1950s.

I don't get the denying we are having a feminist discussion when we are having a feminist discussion. Or why anyone would come onto a discussion to post it doesn't exist. Weird.

dittany · 02/05/2011 21:09

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LuckyWeKeptTheCot · 02/05/2011 21:10

Dittany - no wonder you're so well versed in patronising behaviour! The dictionary I used is the Oxford English Dictionary - can't link to it because it's an actual book here on my shelf.

And Christine - that's why it was discussed and explained. But don;t go getting drawn into a discussion about the wrong wedding. You'd better stick to one at a time.

It's good to know Victoria Beckham's shoes are more relevant in a 'feminist analysis' than the definition of the words used. But that's modern feminism it seems.

KatieMiddleton · 02/05/2011 21:11

This reminds me of the time someone told me he didn't believe in feminists... I thought he was a bit of a prat.

FromGirders · 02/05/2011 21:11

Don't know why I've only just found this thread, but it's made very interesting reading :-)
I did have a lot of Shock at the wording of the ceremony, but then remembered feeling similar at a friend's (C of E) wedding. The Church of Scotland minister who married dh and I was definitely a feminist!
The "small" things he insisted on were - My dad walked me down the aisle, but there when I got to the front, he stepped back, and I stood on my own for a bit before stepping up beside dh. There was no "who gives this woman?" bit. He would have preferred us to walk in one from each side of the church to meet in the middle, but I didn't want to disappoint my dad who was expecting the traditional role.
Under no circumstances would he allow a couple to be married in his church using the word "obey". We each promised the same - to love, honour and cherish.
DH also got a stern warning that after we had knelt for the blessing, under no circumstances was he to get to his feet before I got to mine! We had to stand simultaneously, as the imagery of me still kneeling while dh was standing was not to be condoned. I noticed that Kate was still kneeling at William's feet at that part of the ceremony Sad.
None of these details were things I'd even have thought about at 21, but I'm very glad now that they were brought to my attention.

Interestingly, the same minister often argued that Jesus would have been considered very feminist in his own time: despite women's very lowly place in society in 30AD, many of the parables relate to women, and it was to women that Christ first revealed himself after the resurrection.
I don't think that Christianity has to be anti-women, although I completely agree that the patriarchy of the institution of the church is misogynist.

jjkm · 02/05/2011 21:11

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jjkm · 02/05/2011 21:13

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ChristinedePizan · 02/05/2011 21:13

This is reminding me of Mornington Crescent. 'I'm invoking the Edgware variation of 1972 so actually I think you'll find I can travel between Camden Town and Finchley Road without changing tubes'

LuckyWeKeptTheCot · 02/05/2011 21:14

Why is discussing the interpretation of the word 'obey' NOT a welcome part of a feminist discussion by the way?

'A patriarchal institution that is deeply harmful to women'? It is possible to have generally feminist principles without conforming to gross exaggerations. Don't let it get to you dear.

StewieGriffinsMom · 02/05/2011 21:16

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ChristinedePizan · 02/05/2011 21:17

But you know that most of your guests wouldn't have heard it like that Lucky. If you've meant it like that, why not have both of you say it? Or was it just an opportunity to snigger at your 'feminist mates'?

KatieMiddleton · 02/05/2011 21:19

Lucky you are selecting bits of the thread and attributing them to all feminists. That is not accurate. Contrary to popular belief, we don't all think the same or agree on the same points as has been illustrated throughout this thread. Please don't treat us as a single entity it is insulting and belittling and I don't think that's what you intend to be.

You will get your posts questioned and discussed on here more than most other boards but that's because predominantly this is a discussion board rather than a shared experiences board (that's not to say there isn't much sharing of experiences because of course there is) and it can take a bit of getting used to.

jjkm · 02/05/2011 21:21

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jenny60 · 02/05/2011 21:22

Lucky: this isn't about you and you have derailed a really interesting thread so thanks for that. If you think this discussion is a 'joke', do us all a favour and go away. You are contributing nothing of value.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 02/05/2011 21:25

"It's good to know Victoria Beckham's shoes are more relevant in a 'feminist analysis' than the definition of the words used. But that's modern feminism it seems."

We have just spent 4/5 pages discussing the definitions of obey. That amount of time spent hasn't been spent on VB's shoes.

And your definition of obey isn't in my Oxford English Dictionary. But SGM is right. Why didn't your DH say obey and why was he happy for you to say it but not him? And I am intrigued to wonder what happens if he does order you to do something and you don't? Will you divorce as you have broken your vows?