I'm disassociating from 'radical'

[garlicbutter]

Not really expecting anything here (though this board often surprises me!) but I woke up with a fierce urge to write this post, so may as well go with it.

Self-declared radical feminists used to scare me - and piss me off. They were the ones who sneered at my friends & me for wearing fashionable clothes and makeup. Most of them seemed a hell of a lot quicker to anger than to rational debate. I wasn't that bothered - I was doing plenty for feminist causes, makeup notwithstanding. I just didn't call myself "radical".

A few decades along, I noticed everyone was saying "I'm not a feminist but ..." all over again. There was stuff going on in the media that I considered retrograde for women, and some spokeswomen seemed to be touting pornification and surrender as feminist values. By contemporary standards, it seemed, I was radical!

So I did a bit of reading, and asked on here, and it turns out I'm a rad fem. But it rankles. This is why: Either you're a feminist or you aren't. Either you strive for real gender equality or you don't. There's no need for the 'radical', it's a tautology.

The radical thing is also beginning to strike me as a sorority (not a sisterhood). It feels like the kind of society that's good for teenagers: an us-against-the-world, nobody-truly-understands, same-thinking, catchphrase-sharing, sycophantic sect. Unless we are teenagers, we should have grown up by now and reached out to the world we live in (and wish to change.)

So I'm a feminist, no adjectives required.

This isn't meant as a challenge or anything, but I wanted to post it since so many visitors come away from this board scratching their heads about radical feminism. I'm not saying I know a whole lot about it - I've not studied Feminst Theory or sociology - but I am a long-time feminist activist. Here's my take on it.

[Portoeufino]

SGM, though here I DO get the impression that some contributions are more important than others. I don't expect fluffy, God forbid, and I like having my thoughts challenged - as the mother of one daughter I am hoping to learn lots! - but I think some posters could be a bit gentler with newbies. It seems that such threads just result in a slanging match rather than a proper discussion of the issue.

[cloudyweather]

when i first come here i thought everyone was weird and harsh-this is because i didnt understand!
also i dont understand long words-however-hate is a short word isnt it and i can understand this word.
when i first come here i was arguing with everyone but stayed anyway and i have had a lot of "lightbulb"moments since then.
radical feminism has helped me realise why i have spent my life arguing with people but not understanding who/why i was arguing-
ive argued because ive always had gut feelings about things but never the words or education.
i came to realise that it wasnt the man or woman that was pissing me off that was the real problem-someone pulls their strings and that someone is patriacy[cant spell it]
i also thought that this was a place for middle class women and educated but i realised that this doesnt matter beccause we are equal-
its just that someone decided to call me "underclass"-and for a while i believed it..[you never guess who this was]
you dont need long words to say"stop fuckin trying to mug me off"
[this is to the patriacy by the way]
i havent got round to reading books yet but i am following a few blogs and listening to what others have to say and im finding it really interesting.
ill end this by saying-thankyou Dittany-if i hadnt of argued with you i wouldnt of had the "lighbulb"moments.you made me think!

[Beachcomber]

Hello sparky - haven't seen you around for a while. I miss your posts, they are always very perceptive.

[DontdoitKatie]

That's great Sparky. I don't post to make people think in particular (I post what I think is true and is important to say) but I have thought a lot about all this, so if it made you think too, I'm really happy.

Also the thing about radical feminism helping you realise things that you hadn't put into words before - it was the same for me when I came across it. Real lightbulb moments as if everything that hadn't made sense now made sense. You don't need to have read a lot to understand it either. Radical feminism explains what happens in our own lives, because it's based on what happens in women's lives. There isn't a lot of theory that does that.

[Portoeufino]

Lenin, it is a good point that it wasn't a framed discussion. But OP considers herself to be an active feminist. Yet she still has these views. So I suppose I am wondering why that is, rather than just calling her rude. It isn't very constructive I suppose?

Can I ask the question - why IS feminism so scary to some women?

Most, I am sure want to have equal opportunity and not be treated as second class citizens. I can understand why a certain type of man might feel threatened. I can also imagine that some women still see it as the preserve of the lesbian, dungaree wearing, bra burning cliche thing and not something for them.

I think that MN is such a good opportunity to educate other women and when we end up with loads of "scary" threads where peoples thoughts are immediately dismissed that it alienates the very audience that we should be seeking to bring on board.

[cloudyweather]

hello Beachcomberwavesthankyou!
no i havent been around much-ive had a lot to sort out but im back now!

Dittany-yep-i agree.
mind you-i did have to do a lot of thinking before i come to the conclusion that it was right[i feel]-[radical feminism]as i kept thinking that i was fooling myself-but then i realised that i was just a bit scared-its quite scary when you finally take charge of youreself and youre own thoughts isnt it!
did you feel like this?

[MrIC]

A genuine question here: how did the term "radical feminism" come to be adopted?

I've been looking online but can seem to find a consensus. Did the radical feminists call themselves "radical" or were they labelled as such by others? Is the meaning linked to the idea of "roots", as suggested earlier in the thread, or was it adopted with the more commonplace meaning (extreme) in mind?

[an aside, as one of my female students observed the other day, a man holding the same views about men as radical feminists hold about women wouldn't be radical. He'd just be a man.]

[Portoeufino]

I think that I am very lucky (not sure if that is the right word though) that I have never felt limited or controlled. Not a general sense anyway. I was positively encouraged to get an education. I did the rest myself. Up til recently I thought I was doing well.

I have a good career, a reasonably equal relationship, strong enough to not take shit from anyone. These threads have opened my eyes to where things are still lacking - the inherent, unconscious stuff. And like I said, I have a daughter. I have been very conscious of the model I set for her. I don't DO theory so well, I prefer practical. I am happy to take a ruck on here. I am learning things all the time.

[DontdoitKatie]

"Did the radical feminists call themselves "radical""

Yes, they applied the term radical (as in going to the root) to themselves. People like the Chicago Redstockings took the name.

[DontdoitKatie]

Oops, the Redstockings were from New York.

[Himalaya]

Katiemiddleton - "I have been told on this board that my views are "stupid" and I don't know what I'm talking about when referring to direct experience I have had. I have also had my posts taken apart and comments made and attributed to me about things I haven't said which then moves the debate away from the point and starts to border on the personal."

Yup, I have had that experience here too.

[Portoeufino]

PS - Lenin - I started the football season and just haven't kept up. Are you winning the MN league, or is it me ;-)

[MrIC]

Thanks Dittany

[Portoeufino]

I think MN can be cliquey - and the sorority thing could apply in lots of threads. Generally it is not a place for the feint hearted
.