Disney Princesses - Can someone help me get my argument straight please?

[dirgeinvegas]

I read a fantastic blog last year about how Disney princesses portrayed women very negatively- Disney princesses are very sexual, spend their lives waiting to be rescued by a man, beauty valued over anything else etc.

It made me evaluate how I want to bring up DD and the kinds of toys and clothes we buy for DD (2.3) and whilst I don't go as far as to reject princessy/"girly" gifts from family, if they ask I encourage them to buy her something else.

So, yesterday, my mother asked me if I planned to stop co-sleeping with DD. I said we'd considered it but she doesn't have her own bed at the moment so we'll probably do something over the summer before DC2 arrives. She said she'd seen a beautiful princess bed and she wanted to buy it for DD.

I said I'd prefer her not to have a princess bed and tried to explain my reasons but it sounded a bit weak to be honest. It made much more sense when I read the article. My mum just sighed said "yes, but she's a girly girl and she if she'd like the bed then surely that means its her choice". I struggled to argue with that one (except the "girly girl" bit). I pointed out that she also likes Thomas the Tank Engine and so might like a bed like that but she said that's a boys bed and asked why I can't just let DD be a girl. I said I am letting her be a girl just not by my mothers definition of what it is to be a girl.

So basically all my waffle is asking for some help in explaining to my mum why I don't want DD to have a princess bed. Interestingly, it's princess bed or buy a bed ourselves and my step-dad may just buy it for her anyway which would infuriate me.

I want my parents to understand, even if they don't agree. Princess is just the latest battle. I'm still working on "good girls don't do X" or their obsession with trying to get my energetic, climbing, running 2 year old to wear pink dresses (have you tried climbing a slide in a dress?).

I also can't find the blog anymore but am still searching...

I think it's like this one Manitz - all the white paint in the world isn't disguising that thing

Yes, I am quite strong on my boundaries with my mum and she did comment the other day that she is irritated by some of my parenting choices (bf past 6 months, cosleeping, not smacking) but she thinks she's done quite well in hiding it. I'd debate that actually...

I have to say I laughed at this "I was never shot at by my daughters". I do try to have balance at home and recognise that she will want to play with things which are traditionally girls toys. I know it would be as harmful to only allow her to play with "boys" toys. I think my point is that I don't choose for her but I may not buy her certain things (Bratz, Disney Princess, Barbie) but if she plays with them elsewhere, fine.

I agree with all the arguments and dislike Disney princess stuff - I have three girls so I feel like King Canute at times! There are some good non-soppy princessy books when she gets older but as a practical keeping-the-peace solution for now: plain bed, disney bedding? (You can always buy non-disney bedding for when it is in the wash, too)

Ooh that bed is real crime against aesthetics. Yuck!

dittany You're right, my mum has all kinds of issues but boundary ones are definite. I suspect she has NPD after someone linked a site called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. She ticks most of the boxes and they talk about how NPD mothers feel that they can comment/control all areas of their daughters lives. She doesn't respect her children's boundaries at all. It took me until my 30's to see the impact of her parenting on my life and so I suppose I am trying my best to let DD grow up to be the person she wants to be and not who I think she should be.

I certainly don't want her limited by thinking that because she is a girl she has to act a certain way. Perhaps that's why I feel more strongly about princesses than other people.

some other people.

The bed's quite hilarious isn't it? How could you fall asleep in that?

Thanks Barry I'm not sure I can even compromise on the bedding.

dittany I meant to say no, she wouldn't allow the same bed for my two year old nephew who is actually in need of a bed as his parents think it's time for him to move from his cot. I think I'll tell her to buy it for him

That bed is horrendous! Sounds like you're doing a good job dirge.

Tell her you think that your DD needs something calmer than that bed for her room.

i can't imagine that would induce sleep, how much is going on there (plus agree with bonsoir). which aspect of it do you think your mum liked? Don't worry i'm not expecting an answer. I was imagining something more like this www.pricerighthome.com/Disney_Princess_Junior_Toddler_Bed/DPR216.html

Although, frankly, either way Just Say No.

oh, also my dds have had barbies and polly pocket. again discarded. I read it somewhere else but i think the fact that they do loads of sport has been one of the reasons they've been less interested in that type of toy. Though they do spend a lot of time pregnant and breastfeeding

Thing is, if it's all about feminism, surely true feminism would mean that your dd could choose herself whether she wanted a princess bed?

Aside from that, could you suggest something that will last longer than a princess bed to your mother?

like this?

Even if your dd were into princesses, most probably by the time she's 7, she'll hate them and want Hannah Montana or similar . It'd be more environmentally ethical to have a bed that will last her for years.

That said - I actually see the Disney Princesses as quite strong women. Take Jasmine for instance; she ran away from the assumed life she was supposed to lead and met Aladin.

Or Pochahontas (yes, I know she wasn't actually a princess) - a strong woman who in real life, left her country of birth and travelled thousands of miles to England to see the world.

You could try and make it more than it is - rescued by princes etc but tbh, it's because those original fairy tales were written in a time when women were not seen as important as men. Disney today though, I feel, have tried to sort of correct this. Whilst the stories, such as Cinderella and Sleeping Beaty, obviously have elements of 'girl waiting to be rescued by dashing prince, they have good morals and strong lead females.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's wrong with liking Disney princesses?

My DD is a bit young admittedly (6 months) but when the time comes I think I'd love for her to want to dress up / way the movies / go to Disney world etc...

I loved barbie and all the Disney films when I was young and I don't think it's done me any harm :)

And btw... It's not just Mulan who doesn't fit the Disney princess stereotype... There's Belle, Pocahontas, Nala in the lion king, Ariel was pretty fiesty...

I used to love playing with my Sindy doll as a child. The stories usually had Sindy scaling mountains, fighting against evil monsters, fighting against ghosts and erm, having her head ripped off for the sheer fun of it.

Tell her you want a neutral looking bed so that you don't have to replace it if she likes other characters later......If she insists, say you've already ordered one and you'll return hers??? Or say thank you but you'd all prefer books with princess in the story rather than sleeping on one?

Boundary issues are very difficult - I guess most of the time it is about not wanting to let go and fearing your grown up son/daughter will leave you and never see you again. Maybe you can try explaining that you enjoy her company and her efforts, but there are some things that you need to do and decide for yourself- and that you'd much prefer her to spend her money on a nice treat for herself?

Not 'way' the movies! Watch them :p

whoa! That Sophia single bed is pricey!! :-)

There's a funny moment in Shrek 3 when the princesses (think it is Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and one other?) are supposed to be getting "ready to fight", which they do by assuming the position they wait to be rescued in. Fiona gives them a right telling off - good old girl.

Don't let her get involved in all of this. It's a way in for her.

You are cosleeping so don't even need a bed
The bed she has chosen is (princesses aside) absolutely hideous!
DD hasn't asked for it or chosen it
And it goes against what you want for DD ie opportunity to be how she feels rather than having "girly" rammed down her throat

So don't get into any arguments, just "thank you for your kind offer but we have decided to decline" and if pressed why pull out the impractical, she'll grow out of it (size wise let alone princess wise), that you would rather something more flexible and bigger that will last longer. And then don't be drawn. Thanks but no thanks.

And then keep a close eye on her - she sounds awful TBH

If your dd had been mad for the princess bed then, well, there might be an argument for it (mind you, it sounds like a crime against good taste to me tbh, but I'd have no truck with a Thomas bed either).

But she hasn't asked for it, she's not interested in it. It sounds like it's your mum who wants a princess bed. She's a grown woman so I guess she can buy it for herself if she wants but she shouldn't be foisting it onto you.

I get the choice argument, I've had it with myself several times but DD is 2 and she would eat chips and cake for tea every day if she could choose. She's even asked for a drink of wine before today. Sometimes being a parent means saying no to things we believe are harmful for our children. I hold a strong view and some might think it's extreme but I do think pushing princesses at a 2 year old could be harmful.

To be honest, my DD is so lively, if she had a real choice I think she'd be far more creative than a princess bed.

Here's the link to the blog post porn and powerlessness allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

It makes a lot of sense to me, enough to make me wary of how much princess stuff is in her life. A cutlery set - probably not to influential. A giant bed, shaped like a carriage which encourages her to pretend to be a princess - perhaps a bit more influence.

southofthethames I did say we'd seen a lovely white bed that matches DD's wardrobe etc but she said if we want that then buy that instead (implying she won't). The fact that she's offering to pay only for the bed which she wants DD to have feels like another way of controlling the situation.

Sardine yes, I think I'll wait to see if she brings it up again and then just say no thanks.

I do wish they'd try to understand though. I'm not doing it to be awkward.

Try again

The blog post that made me really think about the messages princesses give out to our children Porn and Powerlessness allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

What is wrong with me??

Simple link:

allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

For me "I will buy you this bed I have chosen, or you can buy one yourself" would be sufficient to make me buy it myself regardless of my opinions.

That pink bed is one hideous monstrosity! Tell her to buy one of those sports-car beds - they're COOL.

However, I wouldn't worry about the princess stuff. Just confine it to dressing up & dolls, keep the bedroom decor largely free of pink fluffy crowns.

My youngest loves to dress up like a princess - big pink dress, plus sword and chainmail helmet for dragon-slaying. It's no fun sitting around waiting for some boy to do what you can do yourself right now!

dirgeinvegas - yes, I thought she'd say that! You know, sounds like she likes the product herself and just wants an excuse to buy it. I thought it looked more like a party prop (like a hard version of a bouncy castle) than a bed.......very camp!... ahem.....she could always buy it as a toy, put a foam layer on it and use it as a pretend toy ship or princess castle....I certainly wouldn't use it as a bed. But she'll have to keep it in her home, not yours. It seriously has a problem in the taste department, lol........... One of my inlaws fills up her (large) house with large toys for her grandkids, from bouncy pools, toy bikes, mini table and chairs, etc etc...it gives them a lot of fun stuff to do when she has them over to babysit, but she's not imposing her choices on her daughter, which works out quite well. She's not rolling in money, it's just one of those old houses with a large area downstairs and she doesn't keep much large furniture - her tv is v small.