Disney Princesses - Can someone help me get my argument straight please?

[dirgeinvegas]

I read a fantastic blog last year about how Disney princesses portrayed women very negatively- Disney princesses are very sexual, spend their lives waiting to be rescued by a man, beauty valued over anything else etc.

It made me evaluate how I want to bring up DD and the kinds of toys and clothes we buy for DD (2.3) and whilst I don't go as far as to reject princessy/"girly" gifts from family, if they ask I encourage them to buy her something else.

So, yesterday, my mother asked me if I planned to stop co-sleeping with DD. I said we'd considered it but she doesn't have her own bed at the moment so we'll probably do something over the summer before DC2 arrives. She said she'd seen a beautiful princess bed and she wanted to buy it for DD.

I said I'd prefer her not to have a princess bed and tried to explain my reasons but it sounded a bit weak to be honest. It made much more sense when I read the article. My mum just sighed said "yes, but she's a girly girl and she if she'd like the bed then surely that means its her choice". I struggled to argue with that one (except the "girly girl" bit). I pointed out that she also likes Thomas the Tank Engine and so might like a bed like that but she said that's a boys bed and asked why I can't just let DD be a girl. I said I am letting her be a girl just not by my mothers definition of what it is to be a girl.

So basically all my waffle is asking for some help in explaining to my mum why I don't want DD to have a princess bed. Interestingly, it's princess bed or buy a bed ourselves and my step-dad may just buy it for her anyway which would infuriate me.

I want my parents to understand, even if they don't agree. Princess is just the latest battle. I'm still working on "good girls don't do X" or their obsession with trying to get my energetic, climbing, running 2 year old to wear pink dresses (have you tried climbing a slide in a dress?).

I also can't find the blog anymore but am still searching...

I read this blog which is very good: disneyprincessrecovery.blogspot.com/

There's a bit down the side about why the mum started to question the princesses - she was disturbed by how her daughter acted when playing at princess.

There also a depressing post where she talks about how people have criticised her for being unAmerican for daring to criticise Disney (here). The scariest comment she was given was:

Please let your girls be girls! There is nothing wrong with being a princess. First Daddy's princess, then hubby's princess. --JoAnn

I think that sums it all up quite well - the princess thing is all about belonging to a man, rather than being a person in your own right.

i disagree (about the peer pressure thing). my dd's are 8 and 6 and dressed as princesses (neither encouraged nor discouraged). They are resolutely anti girly now and i think they see it as something little girls do.

i hate branded goods and particularly solid items like beds. i don't think your mum (from what you've said) will respond to a feminist argument. Could't you just say you'd like something that will last a little longer and a bit less in your face which can adapt to her age. i think it's really important (for my back) that my kids can get in and out of cars - does'nt she want her to grow up?

thanks for those cartoon princess links! They're so funny!

Gah, here's the link so it actually works: disneyprincessrecovery.blogspot.com/

It just goes to show how much of this is conditioning - your mum insisting that your DD must love princesses, despite her probably not having a clue even what they are at her age! I agree as well about people emphasising (and rewarding) the gender-typical behaviours - most kids like a bit of both 'girly' and 'boyish' things if left to themselves, or more to the point they just like what they like at that age, and don't know or care about what they're 'supposed' to like. It's not about 'letting her be a girl', it's about letting her be herself, not forcing her to be what other people think a girl should be.

I think your best argument really is that you want a sensible, long-lasting bed that will outlast any princess phase your DD may or may not have. I agree about disliking the whole princess thing on principle, but doubt your parents will 'get' that :(. Or say there's no need for them to buy such an expensive gift, and you're happy to get a bed yourself.

I am not overly bothered about the bed. DD would probably only bounce on it and then get in with us. Its the princess thing.

Bonsoir that's the thing, she can't run and climb dressed like a princess or even in a dress, the skirt gets tangled and limits her.

My nephew might also like wearing dresses or a princess bed but my mum wouldn't buy him either of those. That's my issue, the bed is picked out because DD is a girl, not because she likes it.

I struggle with this one too. sometimes.

dd2 is the girliest girl imaginable, and in love with anythign princess-y.

she wears only dresses (althoguh red is her favourite colour, thankfully, but she ahs a sprinkling of pink too!) - will nt wear shorts, or trousers - no way, no how.

my take on it is that clothes are clothes - when (if) she finds that wearing a dress restricts her - and it hasn't so far, she runs about, climbs ladders, clambers over climbing frames etc (not exactly elegantly but then she's wearing pants, so who cares?) - then I will have a chat with her either about how to manage it wearing a dress, or that hse might want to consider wearign shorts for that activity... she iwll have to tackle the shorts issue once at school anyway (she is 4).

OP - I agree that the issue is more that your parents are deliberately ignoring your wishes, and re-writing the rulebook (ie your dd will grow out of Peppa, but not out of princesses), and this needs addressing.

as for Princesses in general - I think they are well and truly in our life ofr a while - we were at Disneyworld last week, and both dds adored meeting the princesses (I do wish they could change their script and mention a few hobbies other than brushing thier hair - at least Ariel is always chatting about swimming ). dha nd I try our best to undermine the "waiting for a Prince" message by countering with lots of enjoyable sports and interests - if it stays at a love of glitter and party dresses, then fine (and yes, both dds are allowed ot do whatever they like in whatever they wear - clothes wash is the biggest mantra in our household!)

oh, btw - completely agree that at 2 dresses not always practical. dd2 was in dungareesa nd trousers until she was a little over 3 (when her will started taking over ) - she does have the coordination now to sort out her running/climbing etc around a dress, so I let her get on with it.

manitz I think you're dead right, she won't respond to a feminist argument will she? I am wasting my time. I suppose the shortest route is to say that I'd like something that will last longer or match her bedroom furniture.

Interesting you should ask about her not wanting DD to grow up, I think its more about control. She thinks DD should sleep independently, go to nursery to become more independent but on the other hand wanted to spoon feed her (when she was tiny and DD was on finger foods), and wants DD to sit/play wherever she tells her to and with whatever she thinks is appropriate rather than with something of DD's choice. It's a strange contradiction but the bottom line is, my mum doesn't like DD's will and the fact that she expresses what she wants (she's a toddler fgs) she'd like her to be more passive. She's requested that DC2 due in October be less independent.

Rhian thanks for the link, will read that now. That "let girls be girls" is horrible.

Ephiny agree with your whole post.

You need to be very careful of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater for little girls - who are not boys, and generally do take a great deal of pleasure in dressing up in pretty clothes and costumes. This is not just harmless, but an active part of the creation of their identity.

Leaving aside all the princess arguments, why not just buy a normal bed. We nearly bought a bed with flowers on it for DD when she was about 3, but just got a plain bed. She's still using the same bed now she's nearly a teenager. Just get a normal bed, and dress it up a bit like someone suggested and it'll save money in the long run.

FWIW, DD and my mother conspired together at that age to get all the sickly Disney gear when she was younger, and she's now growing up to be a good feminist despite the Disney phase.

Silver DD likes wearing dresses too sometimes, she likes to twirl and watch the skirt bit float about. She also likes to climb hills and slide down on her belly so I try to be practical. To be honest, at the moment, she isn't too interested in what she wears she just wants to get out the house and play. It's more the grandparents idea that she should be in them all the time. My MIL thinks I am actually cruel and says that if DD was her DD then she would have her dressed in sugar pink dresses with frills on every day. Bit boring IMO...

I agree with what you're saying about balancing the views out.

Bonsoir I don't mind if DD eventually wants to dress up (she has no interest at the moment) as something very "girly" or something traditional seen as boys dress up. I just don't want her to only have the option to dress up as a girly girl.

I'm going to say no thanks to the bed. It's too much hassle. The only reason she offered to buy us a bed for DD (who has never slept alone yet so has given no indication that she'd even use the thing) is because my mum saw the Princess one and loved it. If we don't want the princess one for DD then she doesn't want to buy us a bed. I suppose that's part of my niggle too.

Princesses don't necessarily have to be like the Disney versions!

My dd came running in yesterday, for the first time shouting "I'm a princess!" (she's 3) She had put her wellie boots on, was wielding a toy fish and wearing a teatowel round her neck like a scarf. I've no idea where it came from, but I hope that's the extent of her princess phase!

There are a lot of old fairy tales which are very grating as well. The TinderBox, where the woman who helps the soldier at the start is killed by him just because he wants the box (and he's the hero of the story). The Little Mermaid, where she is made to suffer both emotionally and physically. The Red Shoes, where having even brief independant thoughts means the girl is punished. And then there's The Ugly Duckling, which implies a being will only be accepted and liked once they are aesthetically pleasing.

Alexpolismum

My DD dressed herself in cow print baby legwarmers, a red t-shirt and a santa hat and told me she was going to work...

bullet - I never thought about The Ugly Duckling like that before. I always thought it was a story to encourage children who weren't very popular or thought themselves ugly, to show them that there was light at the end of the tunnel.

DD invited a little girl from school (not her class) home for a playdate recently. At tea time we were chatting around the kitchen table and the little girl mentioned that she was a princess. A Real One.

And it was true

I particularly like the santa hat!

bullet you're right about the fairy tales. I posted a link further up which suggested the stories our children are told in their formative years do impact their self image. I had thought that having a daughter made me think about these things more but now I think just that I am a parent is reason enough...

wow, I bet that doesn't happen very often, Bonsoir!

Well, there were certainly no clues in her dress

'she's requested that dc2 be less independent' . i have a few issues with my folks, they follow the kids round and my mum has a massive panic if they approach the stairs (they are 8,6 and 2) and insists on going down with them, i think she's only just stopped peeling grapes. They don't believe in bedtimes then get annoyed when they misbehave cos they are knackered. they do quite a bit of childcare for me and leave my house a state, they feed them in front of the tv but we only eat at the table and they feed them loads of sweets. The most annoying thing is she buys them clothes but doesn't ask what we need. We don't quite have enough money coming in to cover what is going out so I'd really appreciate help buying shoes or uniform but instead they get even more party dresses.grr.

what can i do though? they are too old to learn new tricks and i've got over discussing it with them. if i suggest i want things done anotehr way it's seen as a criticism of their parenting.

I'm sorry i went off on one there but i have the odd gripe. Your situation sounds similar. Although my parents dont always follow them I have set up boundaries and it was one of teh shocks I had when i had my first child, it's quite a learning experience - I think you need to think about how you are going to manage your mum's control. Every time mine get the kids soemthing i say, you know I need this, if you want to buy something could you look out for a xxx. At least then my mum feels useful and I don't cry over the wasted money.

I'm sorry, I know there is a feminist argument here too but I'm on the fence on that one. I tend to think if you ban things they become more of an issue and more desirable. i like moderate parenting, a bit of everything - so as far as the princesses go we had that and we had traintracks/lego and more traditional boy toys. i liked to think we were pretty gender neutral until I had a boy and realised the intense love he'd have for vehicles. Also i was never shot by my daughters.

Just thought. let her buy the princess bed then pretend it was damaged and paint it neutral white/cream. or how about one like this: www.gltc.co.uk/fcp/product/-/bedroom_furniture_toddler_beds/Stella-Toddler-Bed/10000001697 which is girly but non-branded (in case she grows out of princesses).

Hahaha Bonsoir I could never argue against a real princess (p.s. what circles you mix in! I'd have been dusting off the posh biscuits...).