Fucking idiots

[LadyOfTheManor]

I am extremely pissed off by the attitudes on this thread;

Here

Some women need a good clout around the head.

I've asked LOTM three times what my 'apologetic attitude' is. She talks about rape apologists in the same breath. Forgive me for the leap. She will not answer me.

I've asked her twice if she means me when she says 'fucking idiots'. Twice she has refused to answer. It's hardly a discussion and I'm forced to try and understand the implications.

And is it sexist to say 'be careful when walking here alone' to a woman if they've said the same thing to a man 2 minutes earlier. I asked this on the other thread too and LOTM refused to answer. I do not see any basis for the definitive assertion that the officer in the op under discussion was sexist. You have no way of knowing he said what he said because she was a woman. I acknowledged he might have. LOTM acknowledged no such opportunity for it being something we can't know.

What I mean is that I didn't pretend it was an outrageous conclusion, I was defending the fact that nobody can make any definite conclusions and stick to them so rigidly when we just do not know.

I also think (I know no one cares but Im ploughing ahead anyway ) that there is a difference between people that ask questions politely because they want to have a discussion and are genuinely interested and not trying to cause offence, just thinking (typing) out loud (I would put Bloofer in this category, hope thats ok Bloofer, oh and me!) and idiots like Andre that are posting just to derail the thread.

So, the one type, if you chose to (and if you wanted to/had the time) you could help instruct, the other type obviously tell to fuck off.

I know that from lurking I have learnt lots. I had very different ideas when I first started reading and I have this section and the intelligent posters on it to thank for that. But it would turn me off if I'm called a fucking idiot just for having a different point of view and asking a question.

Yup, that's fine by moi!

Fuppy says the wise words above.

Bugger. Typed a long reply and lost it by leaning on laptop

Basically saying that skulking off somehwere for a pat on the back, and to call people who disagree with you 'fucking idots' is truly spineless.

"I intend to teach my daughter, and also my bonus daughter has been told, they you have to take responsibility for your own behaviour, so going out, getting steaming, having sex with an equally steaming boy, then waking up in the morning and screaming rape, means you are trying to excuse your own behaviour."

Consensual sex is not rape.

Read the stories on here where women have related their experiences - most of whom have not reported them as they feared they would not get anywhere - and see how many of those involve women who have woken up in the morning and "screamed rape" after a consensual encounter, or even how many of them are so called "grey area" where the people were both drunk and maybe he should/maybe he shouldn't. The answer is none. Women when they complain about rape on these pages are not complaining about having consensual sex. They are not complaining about getting drunk and doing things they regret. They are complaining about being raped, where the male has known damn well what he was doing.

Plus the OP on the other thread wasn't drunk. I'm not sure why you've brought that up. She was walking along in a perfectly orderly fashion at 11pm, to get to her house. She was not taking a wild risk, like jumping off a massively high bridge. She was just walking along the pavement to get to her home. How is that a "needless risk"?

LOTM - let me just get your message right: you would encourage your young daughter to march down the unlit and deserted lane because she has 'the right' to do it and anyone who says it may be unwise and be careful are "rape apologists"? Am i right?

for the people who think that you can avoid rape by altering you routines etc:

are you aware that even in places with extreme restrictions on women's mobility and where they are obliged to cover completely women still are raped

I guess the sensible thing is to advise our daughters to not be women

this is nothing to do with 'rights' and everything to do with probabilities. it makes perfect sense to alert someone to be extra careful when alone in the dark area.

i often ask my husband not to withdraw cash late at night from a 'hole in the wall' high street bank (he is disabled and cannot fight back). NOT because i am an idiot or ignore his human rights.

he can still be attacked in the broad daylight. but night makes it easier for the mugger (goodness forbid!!!!)

It's not only about rape though, in fact a rape attempt is unlikely to occur on some deserted lane, rapists are not known for hiding around street corners and waiting for passerby's. However muggers are known for attacking people on the streets. Asking someone to be careful is a sign that person cares for your wellbeing.

And in my experience police officers say things along those lines indiscriminately.

Magicjamas, I think SOH was offended by the 'apologist' accusation because she agrees with the sentiment that it's not up to women in any way to change their actions in order to prevent rape, in the same way that she is never culpable should it ever happen.

What she was saying is that the single phrase uttered to the woman in the op of the other thread wasn't necessarily anything to do with rape at all. That a policeman advises everybody in the same way when in a deserted area and therefore the discussion/arguments/accusations being hung on the encounter aren't 'fact', merely conjecture.

I suggest you all get your facts straight. No one was called a "rape apologist" that was one of the posters referring to herself in this context;

"You called me an apologist, do you think I am a rape apologist?" Or something along those lines. No one has called anyone a rape apologist.

Let me hold your horse still so you can clamber down.

Great posts Sardine.

salt- "BE careful" becareful of what? The rapist lurking around the corner? The bogey man hiding in the bushes? "BE careful" is a useless piece of advice. How was the woman supposed to "be careful"? What should she have done?

Don't use your mobile phone. Look where you're going. Stick to the path. That sort of thing.

Like when I say 'have a safe trip' to dh on his way to work. I don't expect him to sit by the bus driver issuing instructions. I don't expect him to do anything. I'm showing I care.

Maybe it was just a throwaway line and these reams of posts and arguments and posturing are over what was just a couple of coppers trying to say hello. They're human I presume unless Robocop was a documentary and sometimes we say silly things. I say thank you to cashpoints. It's quite possible they meant bugger all by it and slowed down so that the op knew they were coppers and not just random people flying past on bikes.

Pity they couldn't get off their bikes and check out the route she was about to take if they were that concerned...or at least unnerve her and tell her what to be careful of.

I still stand by the point that if she had been a 6"2 strapping and possible black, man the reception wouldn't have been "be careful there" it would have been "where are you going/where have you come from".

And as several people have said, their sons and husbands have had it said to them and others say that their husbands who are police officers say it to 6ft 2" men. So it's evidently not true that it's solely to do with gender.

And like I just said, maybe they weren't concerned, maybe it wasn't a warning. Maybe they were being friendly and they're just human. Maybe it was a rubbish joke, maybe maybe maybe maybe.

That's the point isn't it. It could have meant anything. To seize it as a tool to make a point (which is utterly valid and worth discussing), just cheapens your argument because people get stuck on the fact that you're just interpreting a situation according to your own beliefs and steadfastly refusing to concede that it could be any other way.

I'm afraid I won't accept a spouse's [of a police officer] opinion. The spouse is not out and about with the officer and therefore does not know what happens. You cannot tell me that the Great British Police Constab. are known for being unbiased. They are known for being racist and misogynistic.

Yeeeeees, but the OP of the other thread, who is the only one who was there and so I would say best placed to gauge the tone of the comment, thought that they were being patronising. Their demeanour pissed her off, that's why she started a thread about it.

So I think it's reasonable to discuss it from that POV. No-one else was there. The person who was, was pissed off. SWIM?