Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

2001 channel 4 documentary on porn

533 replies

darleneconnor · 04/04/2011 13:00

hcdocu.blogspot.com/

The best anti-porn evidence I've seen.

(Please watch with caution, some scenes are upsetting)

OP posts:
K999 · 05/04/2011 20:16

No fixation with Madonna. I have only mentioned her twice. Not sure I would call that a fixation.

dittany · 05/04/2011 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 05/04/2011 20:17

for it to mean finger the second time means it would have to the first time ie if you like my finger put a ring on it. A far more obvious reading is that it means herself.

K999 · 05/04/2011 20:19

You're saying Andre is a sex offender?? And that is based on what exactly?

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 05/04/2011 20:22

no, k999, they're saying he talks in a similar way to sex offenders.

msrisotto · 05/04/2011 20:25

Ok, why have you mentioned her twice? What point are you making? I don't get it.

K999 · 05/04/2011 20:25

And how many sex offenders have you "spoken" to??

K999 · 05/04/2011 20:26

The point is I don't think she's a "puppet"

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 20:27

Vic , I don't give a shit about watching my words, tbh

My post will probably get deleted, but hopefully a fair few people will have read it before then

K999, read my post again and you will see how it is phrased to liken someone to something, which is not the same as what you are saying

although, if you are agreeing with me, perhaps you are not quite as dense as you come across Smile

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 05/04/2011 20:28

what's how many sex offenders I've spoken to got to do with anything?

K999 · 05/04/2011 20:31

Great...another woman has a different point of view and she's "dense"....and all lyrics are open to interpretation....

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 20:37

no, K999, I said you weren't dense if you were agreeing with me

you are not reading properly, and you appear to have missed the blue writing on the header that identifies this topic as "feminism/women's rights"

now if you have some intelligent arguments as to why Rihanna, and indeed Madonna, should be hailed as feminist icons and that everyone else on this thread is wrong, please feel free to reveal them

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 20:43

Now ladies, I shall heed my own words and bog off back to AIBU

Sorry for the ruck-ette

My temper gets the best of me at times Smile

ThatVikRinA22 · 05/04/2011 20:44

ive just watched the rest of that documentary

i am so glad the camera crew stepped up and got her out of that house. how can anyone in any way ever call what happened on that documentary an expression of love.

why would anyone do that? ask yourself.

Greythorne · 05/04/2011 20:51

FFS this thread is shocking
Please can all right thinking people bloody report Andre1960
Jesus

There are threads being deleted all the fucking time in Bottle and breastfeeding threads cos someone dares to slag off someone else about their xway of feeding a newborn

Here we've got a a dickhead deliberately playing with ambiguities in order to appear as close to a paedophile and abuser of his own daughter without actually coming out and saying it.

Thank God he seems to have left the thread, but please get his previous posts removed as they are vile. I have reported.

FFF, I love the self moderation on MN but this is ridiculous.

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 20:59

grey, some of the rest of us have reported him and are awaiting an email from HQ

and also done it on previous threads, where he has typed similar disturbing shit

it does appear though, that you can play around with flowery language, obfuscate and hint all kinds of whatever the hell you like, and your posts will stand

I fully expect my own post to disappear, and his to stay, however

Greythorne · 05/04/2011 21:05

Thanks PeterAndre.

I am particularly sickened by:

PETER1960 I know the difference between love and rape better than you, I think. If my daughter chooses to love and be loved by men, I hope she will not be mistaken because I have tried to teach her what it is to be loved by a man. PETER1960

I have not come across this creep before. I wish I hadn't, he has ruined my evening.

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 21:07

arggh, you mean Andre1960

will let you off Grin

< considers another name change >

ThatVikRinA22 · 05/04/2011 21:08

ive spoken to quite a few in answer to K999.

also reported.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 05/04/2011 21:09

'Here we've got a a dickhead deliberately playing with ambiguities in order to appear as close to a paedophile and abuser of his own daughter without actually coming out and saying it.'

you're right, I hadn't managed to quite put it into words but that is what is going on, the ambiguity is deliberate.

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 21:11

yep, absolutely spot on

grey...did you word your report to HQ the same as your post ?

if not, please could you report your own post ?

Greythorne · 05/04/2011 21:12

peterandre
so sorry

got confused

so so sorry

Greythorne · 05/04/2011 21:14

x post peterandre
i have r'eported Andre1960's post and my own post

I think MNHQ have all gone home (fair enough)

PeterAndreForPM · 05/04/2011 21:19

Grin @ grey

I had to go and hunt out some long-forgotten Rescue Remedy last night, after reading those posts, so you are forgiven a bit of confusion ...

Andre1960 · 05/04/2011 21:20

Deliainthemaking - (belatedly) Of course I don't think that what Max Hardcore did was right. I wrote that had he treated someone I loved in that manner I would have had a strong impulse to kill him (I think most people would interpret this as disapproval!). The man is clearly some kind of disturbed and manipulative psychopath. I commented that the story was about love - through and through. That includes striving for love, failures of love, the perversion, distortion and disfigurement of love.

There seem to be some rather stupid people who post on this forum who are as incapable of departing from a rather sordid and uninteresting script as the average producer of very bad porn films. Any utterance which whiffs of a departure from their orthodoxy causes them to get into an awful flap which requires that whatever is said is somehow 'fitted' into that orthodoxy - hence the foolish accusations and hysterical over-interpretations. In the same way that bad porn appeals to a debased and narrow sexuality, their script appeals to an equally debased and narrow intellectuality.

I don't know much about the ins and outs of the porn industry. Like all 'media' businesses (I use this term neutrally), I gather it's fragmenting and segmenting. I was searching last night on google for 'women in porn' and found an article in the Guardian about women producers, porn for women, feminist porn and the rise in 'amateur' porn undermining revenues.

Whatever segment of the 'industry', I would advise extreme caution to anyone considering entering it. Fundamentally, it's about the commodification of sex. Felicity went to LA in order to sell her sexuality. That is an inherently dangerous, debasing and foolish thing to do. In almost any circumstance it risks the entry into an unpleasant Faustian pact. In her circumstances it was a particularly nasty bargain. However, despite all the fear, warnings and shedding of illusions, etc, she continued. She was hoping to make money and seemed to imply that one of her motives was to provide for her daughter. However, it was also clear that she was working through some complex feeling concerning her father (this, too, concerns love).

Her daughter drew a picture of her as Red Riding Hood, including navel piercing. That was also about love. I wrote that the daughter was trying to give her mother a lesson in love. I can see that Felicity is a victim. I think the greatest tragedy was her failure to understand what her daughter was saying to her. It was a sad and thought-provoking documentary.

I'm trying to bring up my own daughter to be strong, confident, assertive and self-possessed despite the best efforts of most women, including her mother, to undercut this. Most women, especially feminists, claim they want girls to be as I want my daughter to be. However, they lie. What I see is girls being taught to be compliant by their mothers, by other women and by other girls who have also been taught by women. It's about dependancy, approval, affirmation and control. Fathers sometimes play a role, but not in my case or most cases in my experience. When they become sexual beings men can pick up where women have left off. Fewer men want this that you might think although some do. That is also a Faustian pact. The best protection for women is to be strong, confident, assertive and self-possessed. This does not equate to being compliant with dittany's notions of who they are because dittany, like Max Hardcore, has her own agenda of control. It's a different agenda, but the need for control is the same. This is a feminist issue that feminists don't like to discuss. I like to discuss it because I have a daughter, eyes and a brain in my head. Also, I'm a man so I'm not afraid of feminist fetishes and of frightening a few chickens. I allow myself to think and speak freely and will try to teach my daughter to do the same. I would not have her controlled or controlling.