2001 channel 4 documentary on porn

[darleneconnor]

hcdocu.blogspot.com/

The best anti-porn evidence I've seen.

(Please watch with caution, some scenes are upsetting)

dittany, I know you only want to talk about rape and therefore everything is reducible to rape but there are other points of view. No amount of F*ing will change this.

Beachcomber: Abuse and rape are very serious and devastating problems. It's good to say this and then to speak calmly and seriously and try to understand as much as possible. It's good to consider carefully to other people's perspectives without feeling threatened by this. It's sometimes possible to integrate those perspectives and gain a broader understanding. It's worth considering this might be possible.

Beachcomber I have said before: outrage is fine. I do not think outrage is the problem. I try to be quite careful what I say. I'm interested in the way human beings are, why they are like that and how they might be different.

Delia, there is a review of the film which exposes corruption - 'All Boys' at the AfterElton website. Dan Savage (the guy who does the 'It Gets Better' campaign to prevent teen suicide) also talks about exploitation issues in porn.

Oh right never heard of it before

Is Andre back is he?

MH makes me feel physically sick,

Well, I think I'm clear on Andre's point* then. It's all your fault, Dittany - and mine, and anyone else who is outraged and shocked by what they saw.

So if we stop all being outraged, the problem will go away.

Silly us; why on earth didn't we think of this earlier?

*actually no, I'm not. It seems like a load of dictionary words thrown together to sound clever but what do I know? Maybe I'm not just clever enough to understand it....

Deliainthemaking I'm back! MH makes me feel sick too.

JessinAvalon HM is not a Martian, neither is Felicity, and nor are you or I. That qualifies you to understand. Try to consider that you might be part of a culture in which MH is a particularly nasty manifestation, and Felicity is a particularly unfortunate victim, and the possibility that there may be a connection between these things and yourself. Express your outrage and then put it aside. Be a grown up. There is nothing you are not capable of understanding when it comes to human beings. You have the perfect resource - yourself.

dittany, the real point of a conversation is not what you define it to be. You are not the custodian of such things. No amount of trying to close down the discussion, shrieks of 'rapist', attempts to get people banned, obscenities, insults, accusations, pointing to headers, defining what is allowed and not allowed, what is feminism, what is not, changes this. You are a serious control freak. I have a quote which fits you perfectly: -

"The matriarchal feminists became the big mothers, and still trying to boss all women, telling us what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. They are unwilling to allow any difference of opinion, and, like the Giantess of the Nursery, they forbid different behaviour."

"The matriarchal feminists won't embrace healthy argument. Instead, if you don't go along with Big Sister or Big Mother, you cannot call yourself a feminist."

Nancy Friday, 'Our Mothers/Ourselves'

"the real point of a conversation is not what you define it to be"

Andre - Everyone else is trying to talk about what they consider to be the real point of the conversation. You don't hold any secret as to what the real point of the conversation is and you're outnumbered here.

No I haven't seen that. I watched the link earlier to the interview with 'Belladonna' which was terribly sad. The way that poor girl kept smiling and then broke down when the interviewer asked her why .

msrisotto There was this incredible politician in Pakistan I heard about recently who spoke out against the blasphemy laws. He also spoke out about a woman who was sentenced to be stoned to death. He said: I don't care if I'm the last person in Pakistan to speak against this and they kill me for it, I know it's wrong. A little while later he was assassinated. This happened recently. I told my daughter about this man who spoke out for a woman and was prepared to be in a minority of one. I asked her to consider whether it was worthwhile. I asked her to consider how much faith is required in order to say: even if I'm the very last one, still I'll say what I think. It requires faith that it's worth it in itself, and faith in the possibility that others might hear and not let what the man said die with him. I asked her what she would do.

I don't care if I'm outnumbered or what everyone else defines as the 'real point of the conversation'.

Could we just freeze Andre out, by completely ignoring him

Responding just feeds the attention-seeking

He will get bored after a while and piss off back to RapeIsLove.com or somesuch place where he will be welcomed as the astute, knowledgeable and entitled being he clearly thinks he is

Andre can't you see how creepy, offensive and downright fucking rude it is to compare a bunch a feminists on a parenting forum to Islamic extremist misogynists who support the stoning of women?

Jesus man, This Is Not About You (this is not the first time I have posted this to you). You are not speaking out about anything - you are posting pompous offensive twaddle on an internet forum. Get a grip.

We are trying to have a discussion about rape, abuse and violence to women in the porn industry - an industry that is tolerated, indeed condoned by the society that we have to live in.

Your posts are derailing and extremely offensive. Don't you know any good MRA forums? - they would welcome you with open arms, you would have much more fun there than here.

Sorry xposts with PAFPM. You are right.

Andre - you are right. I am not a Martian. I had not considered the efficacy of your words. On consideration, I find that I am constituted as an outraged viewer of the documentary. How that manifests itself in my real life and in my posts on Mumsnet you have clearly understood. I find that I am able to defend my position and recognise the position of Max Hardcore and that I am able to fully comprehend Dittany's words to you and to others who are posting on this thread. Yes, the documentary made me feel uncomfortable but not in a sexual sense. Possibly in a feminine sense as my feminine sensibilities were severely disrupted by a man behaving to another human being (and not a Martian )as Max Hardcore clearly is. I feel outraged and shocked, yes, as my initial thought process kicked in. My discombobulation continued as I viewed the footage of poor Felicity. However, my support of others' position remains and I, for one, prefer be mindful of their acknowledged standpoint and appreciative of others who are also mindful of the Max Hardcore as psychopath position (indeed this is my own). I hope you understand.

it's just not a productive use of time to engage with this twat

Andre - Perhaps your daughter might like an alternative consideration of viewpoint from that which she is being offered in the domestic sphere of her parental homelife. Many posters on here are engagingly knowledgeable about such subjects as pornography, page 3, objectification and even the alternative vote as you will see from the ever popular 'Discussions of the day' topic listed above on the top right of this page - discussions picked by the women who run Mumsnet! I am assuming that even you will not dismiss a large number of posters as intellectually challenged, both linguistically, emotionally and in terms of their empathic skills, when every few minutes you are presented, most thoroughly and refreshingly, with such evidence to the contrary. As you have been so earnestly bringing up your daughter to teach her about love, humanity and respect for others as well as having respect for herself, consideration of myriad viewpoints, both wide ranging and narrow, would indeed be a useful lesson for her to adopt in her professional and home lives and of course in pursuit of her romantic relationships.

this seemsto have nosedived