Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

Sorry for monster posts!

You see I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with wanting to look your best, it's just... hmmm... the way in which, particularly for women, there is this unwritten set of rules that are non-negotiable. And they are so arbitrary.

Shaving my legs or armpits do nothing for my physical attractiveness, not really, and neither does wearing make-up and these things have nothing to do with being clean and hygenic either. And these rituals are expencted exclusively of women.

And I think weight/size issues are part of this. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be healthier and look better but it is the expectation to have the body of a prepubescent girl.

Yes I agree with all of that.

It's complex, isn't it.

If we weren't indoctrinated into all of this ritual and knowing what we were supposed to be doing (never-ending list of stuff) - if that genuinely didn't exist - then it would be fun to experiment. And crucially, men would be doing it too.

oh no, do link.
I want to see if he plucked his eyebrows or just did the make-up.

I agree absolutely that there is nothing wrong with wanting to look your best. I don't think this thread is saying that we need to rebel against looking our best - I think it is just saying that you should feel free to look your definition of best, not anybody else's and certainly not what society has decreed unless that matches your own personal view. I like to look attractive (by which I think I actually mean feeling happy with how I look, not whether 11 men and 4 women are fancying the pants off me that day), but I am sick of my attractiveness being defined by society, and I am really thoroughly depressed by the Katie Price type fake tanned, clown make up, no hips, fake boobs look that seems to becoming increasingly common as the 'desired' look for women. The only person aside from myself I want to look attractive for is my DH. Quite frankly, I shouldn't give a toss about society's view about how I should look. I do of course, but this thread is about trying to get over that so you can learn to be happy with how you want to be not how you are expected to be.

So SardineQueen, your 20:23 post is exactly what this thread is about for me - being more confident to make a statement about who I am, not who I should be based on some pre-ordained rules that I was neither consulted on nor asked to vote on.

Yes, why do people ask you if you're tired when you don't wear make up?

It's like they're concerned that you're not toe-ing the line. They don't mean they think you look tired, they mean they've noticed you're not wearing any make up today and are demanding an explanation for that. (And it is only ever women who ask if you are tired - policing the patriarchy. Men are loftily above it all. )

And, yes, Lenin, it's about having the right not to look 'your best' if you don't want to for whatever reason. I have days where I positively revel in looking crap as it reflects my mood on the inside. Other days, I want to get over feeling crap by doing my hair a bit nicer or wearing a nicer top. It is all fine, if it is really your choice. It's just when you feel you have to make an effort every single day, and when, scarily, that effort is becoming more and more channeled into a limited range of 'looks' that it is problematic.

exactly Tortilla. And it relates to something StayFrosty said way back near the start of the thread about how you can still have style.

for me it is actually partly about working out a personal style which is a statement about myself. And the things I choose to accept/reject depend on what sort of a statement I feel they are making. So I don't dye my slightly greying hair because I don't have a problem with getting older, and I don't want to look either childlike or porny so I would prefer not to shave legs or anywhere else thank you very much....

I might try that tack next time I'm asked if I'm tired.

Undercover Punk on aesthetic femininity - worth reading.

Right - what have you fuckers done to my tweezers?

Tried to pluck my eyebrows this morning and my tweezers have stopped working. Actually stopped working. I tried for ten minutes then took contact lenses out to try again (usually do it without lenses in, had vague idea I might be focusing wrong) no joy.

How can tweezers stop working? They're just bits of metal ffs.

Is it psychosomatic?

I blame the matriarchy and MN femo-Nazis in particular.

Just read that thread...well I wouldn't have time!
WWW (an old MNetter) used to do a healthy thread and all that you had to do was drink 2 pints of water everyday, wear a sunfactored face cream, walk a minimum of 20 mins, eat well and get a good nights sleep and most of us were crap at that!
I, too, need to lose weight, but thats becuase I don't like it on me (and nothing fits) so I am reading about good eating in the hope it will spur me on!

Love CB's semi apology - having called everyone dirty, lazy etc......

I am amazed at some of the things suggested on that beauty thread. Do people actually do these things??? Why would I want to spend my time in that way??? (And how on earth do they find the time?)

I'm also amazed to hear that people are told they look tired when they're not wearing make-up. No one has ever said that to me, unless I'm really yawning and obviously tired. Perhaps I radiate a 'leave-me-alone' attitude. Or perhaps my natural gorgeousness radiates vitality . Lenin has the correct response, though. Smile and say "Oh, I am tired, would you mind just doing this [mind-numbingly boring task/ heavy chore, etc] for me? Thanks!"

seth - on the topic of greying hair. It's most bizarre. I have very dark brown hair, and I have one streak of grey in it. I have no idea why, but it seems all my grey hairs are concentrated in one place. The rest is all still dark brown. I think it makes me look distinguished . Besides, don't forget that we talk about being older and wiser, so my grey hairs are attesting to my wisdom

(By the way, Lenin, this is completely off-topic, but can I ask you something about civil partnerships? I don't really know where to post it)

I like this thread! . I can't stand putting make up on my face & i've always been quite relaxed with shaving. Only a few weeks ago when i decided to shave my legs I had to shave old paint off my heels too, hehe! Its not really laziness, or me being dirty, I just don't find it that important. I shave more in the summer because it looks nicer to me.

sAf, agree with the magazine thing. I stopped buying magazines and newspapers a few years ago and also never watch live tv on a commercial channel. Much prefer to record and forward through the ads. If I see ads (print or tv) now, it's so much easier to see the themes ... and ignore them. Just like many have said on here, it's a useful exercise to stop doing some things that are culturally determined for long enough for them to start to lose their power so that when they are added back into my life, I do them because I choose to.

My leg hair is luxurious at the moment . How much time have I saved over the past few months by not keeping them hair free? In the past, I would have shaved/epilated so that they were permanently smooth. And I will shave them again. But not when I'm wearing jeans all the time.