This Poster is Like Feminism Never Happened

[IBlameThePenguins]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind me posting here. I am very new to the world of feminism - although I have held pretty feminist views for most of my life, I am only just starting to read the theory etc. I am a regular lurker on this board, but so far, have never been brave enough to post.

Anyway..I stumbled accross this poster on facebook, and must say, am pretty horrified - and even more so by the comments below. One guy is trying to make a really valid point, and is being shouted down with a load of ignorant/ irrelevant abuse. I am so completely shocked at what some of the young women have written ("you must be gay then, mate" etc).

Was just wondering if you think it's worth maybe commenting.

TIA.

www.facebook.com/lydia.rickards#!/photo.php?fbid=10150115096265913&set=a.439749940912.218950.626130912&theater

I haven't carried out a 20 year qualitative study on the lives of women who attend feminist marches - I'm not sure I could have handled the excitement.

But the law of averages means some women are there for a day out and will do nothing of any great significance to improve the lives of women. I have complained to local shopkeepers about the way they display certain magazines ( in full view of children ) I have said if they don't remove them ( not completely - just out of sight/reach ) I would withdraw my custom - they did it.

I didn't need a movement behind me to achieve a small, but satisfying victory.

the law of averages is completely irrelevant to this case. what you mean is, you have no idea if such women exist.

For the last time - it's s mixture of both - collective and individual, I've said it 3 or 4 times.

carmina what are you on

small victories are great.

But to effect real, lasting change, small victories don't cut the mustard.

It's great that you can persuade a newsagent to remove shit but what about the twelfty zillion other newsagents you don't know who carry on showing shit?

It's great when women can holler back. When a white van tosser shouted at me to get my tits out a while ago I shouted back: "Get your pecs out - oh you can't 'cos you 'aven't fuckin' got any" (classy bird me ) and the look of incredulity and confusion on his face as I sped off was brilliant. But the aim isn't to fight back - the aim is to stop it happening in the first place and that won't happen only by small individual fight backs, it will happen by collective effort.

ok so you're acknowledging that it's a mixture of both

Giving each other moral support is part of the collective effort

Ha ha - my WVM one is ' I bet your dicks even smaller than your brain' - they hate it

I've said I'm appreciative for all you've done - I can't say anymore, I can only do my little bit in my area - if we all did a little bit a lot would be achieved.

Anyway - I will not post on anymore feminist threads, (( I'm not strong enough - honestly ))

Thank you for a very interesting conversation.

""there are women who will refer to themselves as feminists but in
reality do bugger all - sitting here tapping away and going on a few marches means zero if you're not going to follow it though"

What does that mean, though? How can you know whether the feminists posting here do bugger all apart from type on here and go on the odd march? And typing on here (ie. raising awareness of the issues) and going on marches (ie. raising awareness of the issues) are both vital things that do cause change.

Don't assume we don't all do little stuff (as you call it) as well as the typing and marching - it's patronising and unfair.

Well actually even if someone only sits tapping here and formulating arguments and convincing others, or even if they only go to a march a year, that's better than doing what most people do, which is nothing.

Standing up for yourself is good, I've nothing against it, but I don't know why it's better than any of the things that have been mentioned as pointless.

You're right, SAF, that's exactly what it is.

I haven't backtracked at all - you're just not understanding me.

But it doesn't matter - the world is still turning and life goes on as normal.

I never once said she was pathetic - I was trying to get her to be more assertive and to challenge people there and then and have faith in her own individual ability. She's one person facing lifes little annoyances on her own, most of the sexism we face is on a daily basis ( White van man - idiots on Facebook etc ). No amount of marches, workshops, etc will change the attitudes of some people - do sexist pigs go to feminist workshops? Do they take a blind bit of notice of a feminist march? No they don't - so they have to be challenged on a one to one basis when the need arises. I don't need to be part of a collective to know that having porn magazines in clear view of my 10 year old is wrong - that is instinctive.

It's great if you do it all - but individual efforts are extremely important and should be encouraged. That's all I'm saying.

You'd want me in your corner - trust me.

?
you clearly know nothing about sport.

I don't know much about sport but I think it is rather a lot more than Carmina knows about collective feminist action.

Of course sexist pigs don't go to feminist workshops, that is not the point of them.

In boxing you have someone in the red corner and someone in the blue corner -

Er?

Wanting people in your corner means you like people who will be productive and get the job done - it's a figure of speech - I said it because you mentioned boxing -

And I'm the softest person I know ( apart from the very rare exchanges with other motorists - and even then I'm calm )

Carmina - you are wrong in thinking that everyone instinctively knows that porn is not a good thing, because if that were the case, then there would be no need for feminism. As it is, the majority of men (and women, I think) don't think there is a need for feminism, so there is clearly a huge amount of value in collective raising of awareness - far more, I would argue, than just going about your day to day life challenging misogyny when you see it. If you only did that, and never linked up with people as a group, then you'll only ever change the opinion (or not, probably) of the person you speak to. If you work as a group, you have a far bigger impact. But that is not to say that members of groups don't also challenge misogyny in day to day life, but belittling the extremely important role of collective work is not helpful and not supportive.