This Poster is Like Feminism Never Happened

[IBlameThePenguins]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind me posting here. I am very new to the world of feminism - although I have held pretty feminist views for most of my life, I am only just starting to read the theory etc. I am a regular lurker on this board, but so far, have never been brave enough to post.

Anyway..I stumbled accross this poster on facebook, and must say, am pretty horrified - and even more so by the comments below. One guy is trying to make a really valid point, and is being shouted down with a load of ignorant/ irrelevant abuse. I am so completely shocked at what some of the young women have written ("you must be gay then, mate" etc).

Was just wondering if you think it's worth maybe commenting.

TIA.

www.facebook.com/lydia.rickards#!/photo.php?fbid=10150115096265913&set=a.439749940912.218950.626130912&theater

I'm saying it's a mixture of both - ( although I would argue it's been 'individuals' who have been the most influential, historically speaking ) there's no point being in a group if you won't do anything on your own. I personally wouldn't get out of bed to go on a march but I'd never stand by and see a woman/women being abused - in any situation, RL F/B wherever -

individuals are influential because they are good at influencing lots of people - I'm not sure how else you'd be influential

Hello Penguins. IMO, feminism isn't about what individuals do or don't do - its about the shitty way women are treated simply because we're women, and the related way men unquestioningly accept their privileged position. So I have no problem with you seeking a collective response. Otherwise you end up with individualism, competition and further shite of like kind.

Ok - obviously not explaining myself very well ( although I'm sure someone somewhere understands me ) so I'll give up -

It's just interesting that girls are undergoing plastic surgery younger and younger. ( I've heard of girls as young as 12 wanting to 'improve ' their body )
And entertainment is now watching hard core porn live on stage - you have to wonder what's going on? ( in the immortal words of 4 non blondes )

carminaburana, did you look at the page and the comments before your first post? Do you read the other threads in this section? Last question, do you have any links to the activism that you are involved with so that those who agree with you about porn etc can get involved as well?

carmina you seem to be confusing feminism and confidence. the two do not come hand in hand. as i said before, i can be 100% sure that something is wrong, but when faced with 30 other people telling me in what is often a very agressive way that they are right and i am a manhating lesbian it can be difficult to articulate myself in a way that is taken seriously and gets my point across. referring to MN prior to confronting people is a fantastic SAFE way of getting your thoughts in the right order. i am not doubting my opinion, but i often need reassurance that what i am saying is conveying the message i wish to get across.

and martin luther king was not born with his opinions fixed in stone, he formed and developed them through years of talking with both like and un-likeminded people.

FFS, Carmina! What is your problem with people supporting eachother? No movement would ever work if everyone was a Luther King.

Are you in charge of feminism, or something? Because, IME so far, the discussion of feminist issues online is something that informs and supports people and gives people confidence in the knowledge they're building to be able to use it IRL. I didn't realise we were doing it all wrong and all we needed was you to come along and set us straight!

I think the interaction between collective and individual action is interesting.
For example, marching, (which you say you wouldn't do, Carmina) can be a good way for women who feel unsure of their individual action to gain strength, by seeing in real life some of the thousands of women who would back them up in their actions, and also to make visible this whole bunch of individuals: not taking any shit yourself is good, but a march can say 'Here are 5000 women who won't take any shit'. Which gets people's attention.

Dittany: the point I was trying to make was that feminists are individuals as well as being part of a movement - in fact some feminists reject the movement for reasons best known to them ( too militant maybe ? ) whilst still flying the flag for women's rights.

Of course you need people behind you if you want to make significant changes - MLK could never have done it on his own, unions wouldn't achieve anything if they only had 5 members - but feminism is a way of life surely? You're not a feminist in the same way that you're a union member - you are a feminist 24/7 and you need to have the confidence to act as an individual whilst also knowing you are part of a movement.

If I want to complain about pornography on sale in my local newsagents ( I have ) I will complain as an individual - not as part of a movement.

carmina asking for MNers to help clarify your own thoughts before your respond/complain about soemthing is not them asking for all those posters to come and stand beside them when they complain.

I don't think the OP was suggesting that she would comment as part of a movement. She was simply asking what other feminists would do, as she felt unsure about whether or not she was overreacting.

There is nothing wrong with that. I really don't get why you're making such an issue about it.

to say 'I am a feminist but I reject the movement' doesn't make any sense, because if you reject feminism you would not be a feminist; if you mean you reject all the feminist organisations that are around these days, then fine but that is not rejecting feminism as a movement. A movement is made up of individual actions; you didn't get your feminist views from nowhere, you must have been influenced by other feminists.

Isn't that what conciousness raising was/is, Dittany? Women finding that they were not alone in feeling hard-done-by by talking to other women openly? And then beginning to share ways they thought they could change things?

I wonder why Carmina is so hell-bent on us 'going it alone' then? Feminism is about collectivity, and always has been.

I don't know about Carmina but I do think a lot of people go it alone as feminists for years because they don't realise how similar to themselves a lot of feminists are and they think group action might involve them in bra burning things that don't reflect what they believe in.

choice feminism has promoted an individualistic view of feminism I guess.

I think there's been a massive misunderstanding here - for which I will take full responsibilty.

I'm not against women being part of the feminist movement, I'm grateful for everything they've achieved and will continue to achieve. However, there are women who will refer to themselves as feminists but in
reality do bugger all - sitting here tapping away and going on a few marches means zero if you're not going to follow it though.
I'm not part of the feminist movement - I've never been on a march and never will go on one - but I do what I can as an individual - and I've been pretty successful.

I don't think people do just tap away on here and not follow it through. Quite apart from the fact that the tapping itself can be pretty influential if it's properly targeted, all the people on here I have met in RL seem pretty active in their activism.

Are you going to tell us what you've done as an individual that was so successful then?

also I'm interested in who these women are that call themselves feminists and do bugger all - there are definitely women who call themselves feminists and don't take no shit in their everyday life but do bugger all for women - Sarah Palin is a good example. But who are the ones who go on marches and don't do anything else?