Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexism in Foulkes On Fiction

89 replies

charitygirl · 14/02/2011 15:18

Did anyone see this on Saturday - the theme was 'The Lover'? I settled in for a happy hour of 19th century literature, including lots by women, and had to turn off after about 15 minutes because I was nearly in tears!

The rot set in while they were discussing Tess of the D'Urbervilles - a book I admit I love a lot. I could not believe what the male talking heads (and they were all men) were saying:

  • Alain de Boton laughing blokily with Sebastian Foulkes about how Hardy was clearly sexually obsessed with Tess, and that the result was a character all men could get an erection for, particularly as she is so submissive and things 'just happen to her'. No! Men repeatedly choose to abuse her!
  • Foulkes describing the scene where Alec rapes Tess as 'Alec could no longer control his desire for her'. No! Alec chooses to rape her.
  • Simon Schama talking about how Tess is 'confused' by her body, and the 'effect it has on men'. No! Men use Tess's beauty to excuse their treatment of her - both Alec and Angel do this.
  • Foulkes describing how Hardy leaves it ambivalent as to whether Tess is raped or unenthusiastically consents to sex with Alec. No! Even given the typically vague 19th century description, it is clear that either (a) Tess acquiesces because she literally has no experience of non-acquiescence and is scared of Alec, or (b) is asleep. Either of which means, effectively, she is raped.

I'm not saying Hardy ws a 'feminist' in any recognisable sense, and Tess is not that realistic a character, perhaps. But I could not believe the sexist way they framed the discussion, the simplistic descriptions of rape, or the utter lack of sympathy for Tess (other than possibly as someone 'so sexy she's doomed'). I had to turn over then so maybe/hopefully the conversation improved.

OP posts:
Prolesworth · 16/02/2011 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

smallwhitecat · 16/02/2011 12:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sfxmum · 16/02/2011 12:55

thanks for the public service, was disappointed with the first and shan't bother with the second

seeker · 16/02/2011 13:01

Just listened to the MF interview again. Apparantly the only female hero in Englis literature is Becky Sharp.....

sfxmum · 16/02/2011 13:06

first confirmed my dislike of Martin Amis

seeker · 16/02/2011 22:17

But he did say of Emmerdale that it was "Unnecessarily well acted" Which is a brilliant line.

sfxmum · 16/02/2011 23:01

the man has a way with words for better and often for worst

Prolesworth · 17/02/2011 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 18/02/2011 09:35

My god listening to SF on Open Book and he really is full of shit isn't he?

All this hero -v- heroine stuff is just weird and wrong. Apparently Becky Sharpe can be a hero, but Jane Eyre can't "because her mission is to find a man".

Hmm
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 18/02/2011 09:39

And love the way that he excuses looking at one woman out of 7 "heroes" by saying that other female characters "didn't fit the story arc of the programme".

As if the story arc of the programme was handed down on a tablet from heaven. YOU WROTE THE PROGRAMME SEBASTIAN! So basically what you're saying is, "I left them out because I wanted to leave them out."

seeker · 18/02/2011 20:07

It was bizarre, wasn't it? And what was that about people not being heros because they were "too good?"

RRocks · 19/02/2011 11:52

Re earlier comments on Mariella Frostrup and Jo Brand, MF presents The Book Show on Sky Arts 1 and Jo Brand co-presents The TV Book Club on More 4 (?)

HerBeX · 19/02/2011 17:20

Neither of those are the BBC though.

I don't pay a licence fee for those.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 19/02/2011 17:58

the BBC should be the least sexist because it is public money so surely has more of an obligation to reflect everyone in society.
and yet it's way more sexist than Channel 4, for instance Confused

New posts on this thread. Refresh page