Sexism in Foulkes On Fiction

[charitygirl]

Did anyone see this on Saturday - the theme was 'The Lover'? I settled in for a happy hour of 19th century literature, including lots by women, and had to turn off after about 15 minutes because I was nearly in tears!

The rot set in while they were discussing Tess of the D'Urbervilles - a book I admit I love a lot. I could not believe what the male talking heads (and they were all men) were saying:

• Alain de Boton laughing blokily with Sebastian Foulkes about how Hardy was clearly sexually obsessed with Tess, and that the result was a character all men could get an erection for, particularly as she is so submissive and things 'just happen to her'. No! Men repeatedly choose to abuse her!
• Foulkes describing the scene where Alec rapes Tess as 'Alec could no longer control his desire for her'. No! Alec chooses to rape her.
• Simon Schama talking about how Tess is 'confused' by her body, and the 'effect it has on men'. No! Men use Tess's beauty to excuse their treatment of her - both Alec and Angel do this.
• Foulkes describing how Hardy leaves it ambivalent as to whether Tess is raped or unenthusiastically consents to sex with Alec. No! Even given the typically vague 19th century description, it is clear that either (a) Tess acquiesces because she literally has no experience of non-acquiescence and is scared of Alec, or (b) is asleep. Either of which means, effectively, she is raped.

I'm not saying Hardy ws a 'feminist' in any recognisable sense, and Tess is not that realistic a character, perhaps. But I could not believe the sexist way they framed the discussion, the simplistic descriptions of rape, or the utter lack of sympathy for Tess (other than possibly as someone 'so sexy she's doomed'). I had to turn over then so maybe/hopefully the conversation improved.

No really, I bet their excuse is that no-one would watch women debate literature.

So get in Kate Mosse, Kate Moss, Mariella and Jo and the E-less one (at least in literary terms, if not in other terms) would attract the wider audience of both men and Heat Magazine readers.

Job done.

To be fair I've read an interview Kate Moss did with David Bowie in Q magazine* and she showed a lot more knowledge and critical analysis on her subject than AdB did on his.

*Yes, I know probably ghost written but KM (the supermodel) does hang out with a lot of artists and has a child by a writer.

"the week before she had given Sebastian Foulkes a hard time for not featuring enough (or any?) women, both authors and heroines, on the show"

She didn't give him a hard time - she asked him to justify his failure to include women in his programme about heroes, and he completely failed to do so!

Absolutely bloody typical that this shoulc be considered MF being "boringly feminist" rather than him being a misogynist bastard!

ROFL Tondelayo - I'm sure that should read 'The woman characters really made my dick hard'.

I'm glad other people heard the MF interview as well. He deserved every bit of the robust challenge he got and he couldn't defend it one iota.

oh I am a fucking idiot. Havn;t checked but now you say it, it is Faulks isn't. CURSES!!!

Oh well fuck it, he doesnt deserve his name correctly spelled.

Oh god, I so hated 'Charlotte Gray'. Hours of my life I'll never get back.

lol tondelayo - has she be impregnated with his wisdom?

yes, yes, that's the one!
he'd be ok.

Oh I watched this pile of shite and spent the whole programme ranting... Nothing witty or intelligent to add really. Much like SF.

I have Faulks on Fiction so far on my skyplanner but not seen any of them yet, but will watch them with an added angle now.

I adore Tess of the D's. Have done since reading for A level Eng Lit decades ago.( Still ahve my original, yellowed copy, with my teenage-scribbled notes in the margins!) Maybe we had an 'enlightened' teacher all those years ago, but I don't recognise much of the criticism of Hardy mentioned here, if that was it is. Though if SF portrays Hardy's writing as described here then he IS such a wanker. Which is a shame as I did like Birdsong, and the depiction of the terror experienced my European Jewery in Charlotte Grey.

What confused things for me at the time was having the gorgeous Natasha Kinski play Tess in the film of the time, which while she was lovely to admire, she didn't represent the Tess I came to love!

also I feel confirmed in adoration of my Mariella!!

was the Tess film made by our favourite child-abusing film director??
"The Woman Pays" indeed.

just wiki'd it. Polanski in 1979.

here is something interesting on this subject. and yes, i seem to recall reading somewhere that polanski was abusing sleeping with the sixteen year old natassja kinski while filming Tess. just, i imagine, to get a proper feeling for the material.

I an struggling somewhat with the fact that all the epithets I wish to use for SF are names for that part of a woman he obviously appreciates the most. English is such a wonderful language there should be a word for this really. Misgynycunty? Twat-irony?

No charitygirl, he doesn't deserve to have nis name spelt right, but maybe you should ask MNTowers to correct it in the hope that it comes up next time he googles himself (which I bet he does every day)