Bidisha article on pubic hair removal

[JessinAvalon]

Good Bidisha article on pubic hair removal:

m.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/11/womens-pubic-hair-removal-porn?cat=lifeandstyle&type=article

What AliceWorld said.

We could now get a slew of people saying, 'I choose to wax/shave my pubic hair'.

@David51-Bidisha's article explains why it's so popular. So that men can get a better view of a woman's genitals and of penetration in porn and so that they can get a better view in strip clubs.

There's been a huge rise in strip clubs in the last few years too and a huge rise in internet porn. Lads mags too show photographs of girls either naked with strategically placed pots of honey between their legs or with the tiniest little knickers so that it's pretty obvious that there is either no hair or very little hair there.

And, in consequence, a huge rise in salons offering waxing and laser hair removal for a woman's pubic hair.

As AW said, what individuals say they choose to do is one thing, the fact is, it's become a trend that is being encouraged/capitalised on by the beauty industry.

Yes I agree AW. In the last thread I saw on this (in AIBU admittedly) women were very reluctant to acknowledge that the cultural shift had anything to do with porn. Which is weird because to me it seems so obvious.

because maybe, historically, women didn't realise that actually, they can control what happens to their vulva? That it is a pretty awesome part of the body and can be ornamented and groomed as the owner of it sees fit?

before the sexual revolution, sex was something men did, sexual organs were something men had. Women had 'privates'. they were taught that 'privates' were dirty. They were taught not to touch them.

You have to be pretty knowledgable about your own vulva, or have a mirrored bath, not to cut yourself shaving. You have to have touched it before.

My first decision to shave my pubes came about a year before I was sexually active. I didn't like the way my new hair made me sweat (and this wasn't about shaving under my arms, because I didn't actually have any pit hair until I was 17!) so I tried shaving it off.

But only a girl with a private bathroom and access to a razor could do that. I certainly didn't tell my mother, she'd have probably told me off for knowing about vulvas!

We have got a slew of people saying, 'I choose to wax/shave my pubic hair'!

And while it's tempting to talk about evil capitalists, as in "a trend that is being encouraged/capitalised on by the beauty industry", in this case I think they're meeting a demand from the customers, rather than creating one. People genuinely like doing this, and if we don't address that point, we aren't taking an honest look at the situation, just as Bidisha didn't.

So if pubic hair is so undesirable - for hygiene reasons and oral sex etc - why hasn't the trend taken off with men, as Bidisha mentions?

I suspect that a lot of women find endless hair removal it tedious and annoying on top of their current beauty regime but that there has been a cultural shift which encourages women to follow the trend. Of course I accept that there are women who have always removed their pubic hair for their own reasons. But the rise of waxing salons in the last few years and the subsequent advertising for them which normalises pubic hair removal cannot be a coincidence.

Yes, don't listen when women talk about choice. There's always someone who knows better.

I;'ve never waxed

Ok, well I have, and it was an absolute farce which resulted in me wailing down the phone to my friend at 10 pm with a teatowel stuck to my minge with hot wax, and blisters there for three weeks because I tried to remove it with nail polish remover.

Never Again.

I choose to have silicon inserted into my breasts to make them bigger.

I choose to go pole dancing because it's good for my fitness.

I choose to wear crippling high heels because, although they're uncomfortable, I like wearing them.

I don't choose to do these things but I just wondered how that all sounded.

Interesting idea coldtits that I will end up mulling for some time.

My gut reaction is that with the way women often react to mooncups because they have to touch themselves suggests there is not that kind of shift. But on the other hand there is a shift towards engaging with the body during childbirth rather than it being behind a screen. So shifts both ways.

I like the idea of women being more at ease with their own body.

But then why shave? I quite like twisting mine into one big curl.

I repeat my earlier question, if it's so desirable, why aren't men doing it too? Salons will wax men's crotches too.

That was to coldtits Fri 11-Feb-11 18:14:00 btw. Such slow typing!

Um - ok, maybe a bit tmi, but , um

You can access a penis with your mouth without having to fish through pubes to get to it.

The same is, um, not true of the clitoris, in many cases

It'#s a pubes in the throat issue

Why shave?

I don't know why other people shave, I shave because I don't like the sweaty feeling i get when pubes are there.

I have an aversion to my own sweat.

"Yes, don't listen when women talk about choice. There's always someone who knows better."

But choices aren't made in a vacuum. I would challenge anyone talking about anything where they thought it was purely down to choice/agency rather than structure.

Anything we choose to do is in a society that makes some things normal. That's the interesting thing, not the individual rationale.

I mean the individual rationale has its place, but cultural trends are more revealing for something like this.

Men aren't doing it to the extent that woman are because of the quite obvious anatomical differences

• I can give a BJ relatively easily without a mouthful of pubes

• he can piss without getting his pubes wet

• he is unlikely to get them matted with blood, unless he has far bigger worries than a period

I would suggest that hair removal for men is seen as something only gay men do. It's associated with the feminine and therefore it's not a trend that many heterosexual men would want to adopt.

I am registered as a man on Facebook and I get a few hair removal ads for men every week now. Yet IRL I don't know of anyone except for one gay man who spends any time removing hair except from their face.

With all this hair straightening, dressing up, hair removal, eyebrows, underarms, legs, and now pubic hair, make up, I do wonder how women get anything done! We must be pretty amazing to spend time doing so much personal grooming (and I am guilty of that too) and yet still manage homes and get on in our careers etc.

I have friends who show off about their pubic hair removal, like it's a badge of honour. I remember listening to them last year trying to outdo each other by sharing how much each has taken off when she visits the beauty salon. "Well, I have it neatened up."

"Well, I have all taken off except for a strip."

"Well, I have everything taken off, and I mean everything."

The men were sat there salivating at this blatant show of subservience sexiness.

I think that says more about your friends than anything else!

And what's that?

I suspect if I asked each of them why they did it, they would give reasons that have been given above.

Yet they still felt it necessary to share in front of men whom they knew would enjoy hearing about it.

I did find it odd the way they were almost showing about it - well, they weren't almost showing off, they were actually showing off!

If only there had been a couple there who'd both say, "How ridiculous. In our house, natural is sexy."

I am always slightly mystified and suspicious about this argument that it's about men being incompetent at cunnilingus.

Sorry in advance if my discussion is a little graphic, but firstly, in many women the clitoris isn't actually near tht many pubes by the time the man's tongue has got to it, as sexual arousal has opened the labia up and the clitoris is pretty available without loads of hair there. Secondly, lots of blow jobs don't just involve the penis, they also involve testicles which often have hair on them.

So that argument won't wash.